Misty Williams 00:01
Hey, sister, this is Misty Williams, founder of healingrosie.com. And I’m so excited to welcome you to Rosie radio. Tune in to find clarity, direction and hope for your healing.
Misty Williams 00:10
New episodes drop every Tuesday, we created this show to empower you to regain control of your life and feel like yourself again.
Misty Williams 00:18
Yes, sister it is possible. So not a lot of that. I used to run half marathons in my mid 30s, I probably did six different races, and I loved it.
Misty Williams 00:30
I loved running, I was a consistent trainer for about five years. And I actually thought that I would probably run for the rest of my life. It was really Zen for me.
Misty Williams 00:30
I loved being really disciplined about something really consistent. And a couple of years in, I started getting the little nagging injuries, the little tears and my knees and my ankles, right?
Misty Williams 00:52
And at first I had some extra support and keep running. But then it got to the point where I had to stop for periods of time and let my body heal.
Misty Williams 01:00
I would be out running and I would get an ankle injury that was just really painful. There wasn’t anything majorly wrong with my ankle other than probably a little tear.
Misty Williams 01:00
But it was really painful to run. I remember using ibuprofen to try to get back on the road as we said, and four weeks later, I’d go back out and dang it! what? I just injured my ankle again.
Misty Williams 01:23
A friend told me about zyflamend, if you do not know about zyflamend it should be in your medicine cabinet. It’s a fabulous anti-inflammatory, I started taking zyflamend which was fantastic.
Misty Williams 01:33
It got me back on the road quicker. But then stuff what happened with my knees, a little tendonitis here, little tendonitis there.
Misty Williams 01:39
And finally it got to the point where I was like Man! If I’m really serious about this, I really need to figure out what’s going on with my legs.
Misty Williams 01:46
So a few friends started talking to me about running form. And I started learning about what good form looks but beginning to run with better form didn’t fix what was going on in my legs.
Misty Williams 01:58
So I got a referral to this amazing massage therapist when I was in Nashville. His name is Lewis Braswell, if you’re in Nashville, email me and I’ll give you his info.
Misty Williams 02:09
He was fantastic. He was the first one that started talking to me about my body and my fascia, and all of this muscular tissue over my whole body kind of being thinking of it as one organism, one thing, right?
Misty Williams 02:25
And he checked out my form, he noticed that my calves were really tight and it was from my running form and looked at a lot of other things structurally.
Misty Williams 02:36
How they do and have you stand and move and have your toes and, and told me that he needed at least five sessions to work with me.
Misty Williams 02:44
But he wasn’t going to just work with my lower body, he was going to spend time on my shoulders, on my back, on my neck, all to help alleviate what was going on in my calves.
Misty Williams 02:54
Essentially that was just it was affecting my body everywhere. So I got a whole new appreciation for how our bodies are wired up, so to speak, and what happens with our fascia.
Misty Williams 03:09
On the podcast today we’re going to talk to my friend Shivan about fascia. She has an event coming up, a summit coming up called fascia and chronic pain.
Misty Williams 03:19
And we are going to get into this topic of fascia a little more. Because if you have been dealing with chronic pain at all in your life, whether it’s just these little nagging injuries from working out.
Misty Williams 03:30
If you’re dealing with something bigger, the pain that might be tied to an autoimmune condition, or maybe you’re getting older and you just feel everything’s creaking.
Misty Williams 03:38
And you just don’t move like you used to or you’re getting out of bed in the morning and it’s oh, it takes you a few steps to be able to stand up straight.
Misty Williams 03:46
This is going to be a fantastic conversation that I think you’ll be really glad you made time for today’s so Shivan Sarna has been a TV host for over 20 years.
Misty Williams 03:57
She is the author of Healing SIBO and the creator of 10 major online media health events ranging from such diverse topics of gut health to biological dentistry.
Misty Williams 04:06
She teaches people to blend metaphysical and yoga principles with modern life missions. Welcome Shivan
Shivan Sarna 04:12
Hi, it’s good to see you. I’m loving your running story. And I love that you had that whole body discovery with that great practitioner in Tennessee.
Shivan Sarna 04:24
Fascia is referred to often by the speakers that we have for the fascia and chronic pain rescue Summit, as a fabric running through the body.
Shivan Sarna 04:36
One of the speakers talked about it as being a fishnet stocking running through the body, which I thought was great imagery.
Shivan Sarna 04:43
It touches everything and keeps everything in place. And it’s the cells that touches but also the space between the cells.
Shivan Sarna 04:53
And in medical school for years gone by, they would go into the cadaver labs, these medical students and one of the stories was they used to pull the fascia up.
Shivan Sarna 05:03
Think of it like a chicken breast when you get to the market, and then you lift the skin up and then there’s the sticky film.
Shivan Sarna 05:11
And it’s hard to pull off. The medical students used to be, Oh!, I can’t wait to get rid of this stuff. And they would throw it away, because the good stuff was the muscles in the organs.
Shivan Sarna 05:20
But in actuality, the fascia fortunately, based on research and cutting edge, literally new developments from some folks that are really seriously and legitimately daily making discoveries.
Shivan Sarna 05:38
Emerging as this incredibly powerful, juicy, wonderful mechanism in our body to help regulate our immune system and our structure and organ digestion and the gut microbiome.
Shivan Sarna 05:43
So it’s really important and that’s why I wanted to talk about it. And thanks for having me. And that’s why Kelly Kennedy, the lymph queen, and I did this summit together.
Misty Williams 05:47
Lymph and Fascia. Both are two areas of the body that don’t get very much airtime, right? But they profoundly affect our overall health, our ability, our ability to detoxify, our ability to move freely, without pain.
Misty Williams 05:51
There’s so much to these little nuanced areas of the body. And I think it’d be really interesting for people to hear your story in your background with this topic.
Misty Williams 06:12
Because you were involved in a car accident. You are someone that you would think of as being really in tune with your body, right? and movement, and all of those things.
Misty Williams 06:34
And you had a traumatic event that I’m sure a lot of people can relate to that changed your relationship to all of this.
Shivan Sarna 06:41
I wanted to have conversations about it. So we did that. And then I kept thinking we should do a Fascia summit and I didn’t want to do it, honestly, because I was way busy.
Shivan Sarna 06:41
It’s true, So a couple of things. One is that I did also a summit on the lymphatic system. The Lymphatic rescue Summit, because of what you just said, and how it’s an underserved part of our bodies.
Shivan Sarna 07:02
But Kelly was, yes!, you have to do it. And then Dr. Christine Shaffner was yes!, you have to do it. And so we did it together.
Shivan Sarna 07:07
But why I wanted to do it is because the fascia has had a lot of impact on me for most of my life without me realizing it gotten to actually several car accidents, none of which were my fault legitimately.
Shivan Sarna 07:20
Even from just fender benders to being sideswiped, by being hit with the car behind me going 110 miles an hour while I was going probably 75.
Shivan Sarna 07:31
And what that did to me and just this whole drip campaign and my bucket became very full of a lot of tightness and as a yoga teacher with mild Ehlers Danlos.
Shivan Sarna 07:44
Which is a collagen genetic scenario where you tend to be quite lacks. I’m not a Cirque du Soleil performer, but I have lacks joints, I can be very hyper mobile.
Shivan Sarna 07:56
And it just started getting a lot of pain. And These are my 20s and 30s, like old lady pain. And I got raft. Integrative hospital integration.
Shivan Sarna 08:14
I mean, all of this series of bodywork, massage, all of this, and ultimately they were all working on my fascia, but I didn’t have that word. I didn’t understand it.
Shivan Sarna 08:23
Right. Yeah. And so a couple of things happened. One was that my mother died in 1997 from lymphoma, so I really wanted to get off that lymph message.
Shivan Sarna 08:33
And I remember being in the wrong thing session shortly after she died. And no, it was okay. But I was grieving, deeply grieving.
Shivan Sarna 08:41
And the raft pressed on some spots at the top of my thighs kind of like were the button at the thighs. And oh my gosh, I burst into tears.
Shivan Sarna 08:52
Understandably, right. So I mean, I was grieving who knows, but it was a button. She would move on to different body parts.
Shivan Sarna 08:59
She’d come back to that body part. And it was, touch cry, touch, cry, touch cry. It was crazy. And I’ll never forget that.
Shivan Sarna 09:08
And again, later, I understood that I was holding some trauma and grief in that part of my body, which makes a lot of sense.
Shivan Sarna 09:17
So basically, I wanted to make sure that everyone found out what was going on in the new world of fascia. And by the way, Kelly Kennedy, my co host, she was the very much into lymph knowledge.
Shivan Sarna 09:30
And on fascia, she almost died in a car accident, it was literally scalped. And so her experience with fascia, with resolving the scars from those car accidents.
Shivan Sarna 09:42
And how when she resolved the scars in her body, that she was out of pain. And this was a huge lightbulb for her. So the fascial holds trauma. It holds us together is incredible.
Shivan Sarna 09:55
If you have an injury or you’re rotated and a sword a certain way or you’re twisted. The body needs to stabilize that fascia is going to come in handy, right? and come in and do its job and thicken in certain areas.
Shivan Sarna 10:09
And if you like repetitive injury from your running example, it’s doing its job, but we have to help it as much as possible.
Shivan Sarna 10:18
And when it’s out of balance, it’s painful. So there are things you can do fortunately, and the way I got really turned on finally to this term fascia, and what it was.
Shivan Sarna 10:30
I went to a melt method training, which is Su hips, means modality of soft foam rollers and small balls to help with fluidity and release stuck, stress, and all the great language that she has.
Shivan Sarna 10:47
And this was in 2013. So in 2013, was the first time that I ever saw a video with Tom Meyers about cadavers, and about what fascia was in relation to our bodies.
Shivan Sarna 11:01
And it was just light bulbs exploding in my brain. I’m Oh!, my gosh, wait a minute. And then the work of being on the soft foam roller and very specific ways. I felt it.
Shivan Sarna 11:13
And I was like, again, bing, bing, bing, okay, this is what’s been missing. This is what I’ve been craving. And it was just a huge transformation for me. So,
Misty Williams 11:25
I want to talk a little bit about scar tissue, because there’s a lot of us who are dealing with challenges from scar tissue and don’t know it.
Misty Williams 11:34
Women can have scarring after bearing children. Of course, they can have scarring from a hysterectomy from having your tubes tied from what I actually noticed a couple of weeks ago.
Misty Williams 11:50
I think I’ve kind of noticed this before, but I noticed it really got my attention. I was feeling on my abdomen from the left to the right.
Misty Williams 11:59
And I came across scar tissue from a surgery I had when I was 11.
Shivan Sarna 12:05
Oh my gosh, right?.
Misty Williams 12:07
But I’m feeling that scar tissue. This is more than I ever remember being here, right?
Misty Williams 12:15
There are women who come to the Healing Rosie, Facebook group and talk about their experience with hysterectomy and how their bodies are never the same.
Misty Williams 12:24
They’re dealing with prolapsed uteruses, and all sorts of things where our bodies experienced trauma. And we also experienced surgeries.
Misty Williams 12:32
A lot of abdominal surgeries, where we’re dealing with scarring, and the effects of basically, going in and moving things around and taking things out and all of that stuff.
Misty Williams 12:45
So I’d love to just maybe unpack that a little bit, give us a little bit of education around scarring, and its role in chronic pain. And maybe if you have some great tips on what people can do, that would be really fantastic.
Shivan Sarna 12:57
Absolutely. So in the world of SIBO, Emo IVs. Scarring internally, we talk a lot about adhesions, which is really the gathering of that fascia.
Shivan Sarna 13:11
After you have a surgery, you want your body to remit restitch back together, and it’s stronger than steel. And so in a good way, it’s holding you together, but you want to resolve that.
Shivan Sarna 13:24
So once it’s done with that job, yeah, done this beautiful job. So the adhesions can pull the tissue out of place to impact the migrating motor complex.
Shivan Sarna 13:34
Which is the sweeping motion of the small intestine and can lead to overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine, which can lead to SIBO.
Shivan Sarna 13:41
Small intestine bacterial overgrowth, which is a huge passion of mine, because I had it, but not from scars, but from food poisoning.
Shivan Sarna 13:49
But that is one of the underlying causes. And then it’s not just surgeries. So the seat belt dug into my stomach when I had the car accident in 1991.
Shivan Sarna 14:03
And during a visceral manipulation, cranial sacral session, this wonderful therapist, basically sort of slit her hands underneath my stomach, which sounds crazy, but she is very gifted.
Shivan Sarna 14:16
And she’s, Oh my gosh!, it’s like a desert under there. And it was just adhesions that had compressed my tissue there. And she did her work, and then my stomach gurgle for three days.
Shivan Sarna 14:31
It was crazy. We are moving. We’re cooking with steam now. So there are ways to address adhesions, fascia, scars, and that one of them is visceral manipulation, hands on therapy.
Shivan Sarna 14:46
There’s all kinds but you have it’s really beyond a typical massage therapist. You want to find someone who’s truly passionate about and that’s their main jam is cranial sacral visceral manipulation.
Shivan Sarna 14:57
You can look at the Upledger Institute or the Barral Institute and find people around the world who do that work. And then the other thing you can do is neural therapy.
Shivan Sarna 15:06
Which is injections of procaine, which is very biological medicine, very German, Dr. Anne Hill and the summit speaks about this.
Shivan Sarna 15:06
And that can be injected directly into scars directly into tonsils, which sounds insane, I’ve had it done, it wasn’t as bad as it sounded.
Shivan Sarna 15:27
I’m very opposed to pain and can be, can release that tissue without it dissolving and resets the nerves there. So you can do yourself work with foam rollers, not the hard ones.
Shivan Sarna 15:42
You can get a very gifted healer, hands on. And you could also do neural therapy, which is procaine injections, which not everyone does, not everyone’s even heard of, or even thought of. But there are ways to seek out a provider.
Misty Williams 15:57
So let’s talk a little bit about fibrinogen and systemic enzymes. I’m curious if they have come up and all this talk about fascia because so many women deal with endometriosis and different kinds of tissues where you’ve got coverage in the abdomen that can oftentimes create a lot of scarring and stuff. Any connection there?
Shivan Sarna 16:21
I honestly don’t know the answer to your question. I would imagine there would be but I did half the interviews.
Shivan Sarna 16:27
Kelly did half the interview. So I hope they talked about it, because I don’t think we really did. And also, it’s a set of 14 masterclasses within the summit.
Shivan Sarna 16:36
So I watched all of them. But we talked a lot about surgery in general.Yeah, well,
Misty Williams 16:43
Systemic enzymes are really helpful for dissolving scar tissue.
Shivan Sarna 16:48
Misty Williams 16:48
The body naturally produces systemic enzymes, we have a lot more when we’re younger. As we get older, we don’t produce as many when we’re older.
Misty Williams 16:57
And sometimes that’s why we noticed an increase in our scarring and scar tissue and things of that nature. For women who have endometriosis, we can get a buildup of tissue inside our uterus of course.
Misty Williams 17:10
And also outside and different parts of the body. And so systemic enzymes is a bio hack that I was actually referred to directly.
Misty Williams 17:18
But I’ve also heard a lot of other people talk about the power of systemic enzymes to help dissolve some of that stuff, because our bodies don’t naturally produce it.
Shivan Sarna 17:26
That’s fantastic. The other thing that can also by the way, endometriosis can lead to SIBO as well, because again, it pulls the tissue.
Shivan Sarna 17:35
But the other thing about that is fluidity. Dehydration is such an epidemic. And so we talked a lot about structured water, hydration.
Shivan Sarna 17:49
On how to make sure your body is hydrated, so that what we’ve been talking about you feel you’re creaky. You feel like you’re almost like your skin is shrinking onto yourself.
Shivan Sarna 18:01
And therefore you feel really tight. A lot of times, the first thing to check is are you properly hydrated? Because it’s so taken for granted? I feel okay. Yeah. So get that good fluid in there.
Misty Williams 18:19
Talk a little bit about structured water for those that maybe aren’t very familiar with the term or maybe have heard it but don’t really get what it is.
Shivan Sarna 18:25
So Gina Bria is one of our speakers as well who is the Queen Mother of structured water. So I don’t have a scientific term for it. But I call it water with intention.
Shivan Sarna 18:39
Water that your body can easily absorb and use and knows what to do with it. You can just for a hack, you can structure water, very primitively by sending your intention to the water.
Shivan Sarna 18:53
You can send vibration, you could put it in a canister that says love and gratitude, which were the terms that gave it the most beautiful structure, love and gratitude.
Shivan Sarna 19:06
If you write down a word war, it doesn’t structure as well. It is actually disrupted. It’s fascinating.
Misty Williams 19:13
So there’s real science, by the way, on all this stuff.
Shivan Sarna 19:17
Yeah, thank you. We had a couple of woowoo interviews, but they were so interesting that I kept them in there because I just like you couldn’t look away and they were fascinating.
Shivan Sarna 19:30
And I had personal experiences with some of them. So there are a couple of them and we write that out, enjoy this metaphysical approach.
Shivan Sarna 19:37
Expand your mind regarding fascia, and the body. For those people who really want to know what they’re getting into before they listen to something.
Shivan Sarna 19:46
But I wanted to put it in there because that’s what our summits are for. It’s also to help you stretch your mind. And then one of my big things about summits since this was my ninth one.
Shivan Sarna 19:58
Since 2017 is sure To teach what you learn, because that is going to reinforce the messaging for you, but also help other people. So that’s just one of my sub themes.
Misty Williams 20:07
Yeah, I’ve heard structured people explaining what structure water is. I’ve heard them explain it as water that’s alive and not dead.
Shivan Sarna 20:15
Misty Williams 20:17
See, your cells are able to absorb structured water, or better. There’s some really interesting perspectives.
Misty Williams 20:25
I’m trying to think of the water book before the four stages of water maybe. There are people who their jam and their life’s work is water.
Misty Williams 20:36
And the benefits of hydration and how to properly hydrate and what happens to our water, you think about how processed our water is, what happens when you process water?
Misty Williams 20:47
And why is spring water better? Right? Why is it better to get water, from right out in nature versus water that’s been processed so much that it’s almost dead.
Misty Williams 20:58
There’s some interesting conversations around structured water and reverse osmosis water, for example.
Shivan Sarna 21:05
The controversy, The Hidden messages in water by Masaru Emoto.
Shivan Sarna 21:12
So that’s the gentleman who did all the experiments with the molecules of water and they look like snowflakes, right?
Shivan Sarna 21:21
The formations that they make when they are introduced to different words and concepts and vibrations. And so there’s a local spring where I live, and people go and get their water there legitimately.
Shivan Sarna 21:35
When I heard it, I was like, what? Does that really happen? And so we went and checked it out.
Shivan Sarna 21:42
It was fascinating. It was going back in time. And it was super cool. And there are people here who for generations have been drinking out of the spring.
Shivan Sarna 21:52
And it literally is a spigot out of a side of cement. I mean, it’s not fancy. And Giardia scares me as a gut health patient.
Shivan Sarna 22:07
And so I’m trying not to live in fear. But It’s just that I’m not doing it because of that, because there’s just too many variables, especially today.
Shivan Sarna 22:18
I will take this controversy a little bit further. And I know a lot of people won’t agree with this. But I just steal my water, which people think is dead water.
Shivan Sarna 22:27
But for us at this stage of this moment, and in our detoxification efforts that we’re doing in this house, we’re doing the distilled at least I know exactly what’s in it.
Misty Williams 22:40
Yeah. What would you think of running spring water through something like the Berkey?
Shivan Sarna 22:44
Great, awesome. Yeah.
Misty Williams 22:46
Then we went last year to Arkansas. Yeah, Hot Springs, Arkansas to be precise, although they have springs all over that state. It’s not just in Hot Springs. And there were the spigots that you’re describing everywhere.
Misty Williams 23:00
People who’ve come and just fill up their bottles bring your five gallon jugs, I don’t know if they all bring big jugs to put their water in.
Misty Williams 23:07
But it’s just a thing all over town or people can get water right from the earth or something about that. That does feel very natural.
Shivan Sarna 23:15
Yes, for sure yes.
Misty Williams 23:18
And I do tend to if I’m getting bottled water, the mountain spring water that’s in the glass bottles and things that do it does seem from my own research, that’s the way to go get some good micronutrients.
Misty Williams 23:31
Yeah, water that you’re drinking too. But yeah, hydration is a big topic. It’s a big one. And a lot of us are dealing with dehydration and don’t even know it.
Misty Williams 23:38
There’s ways you can spot it in your labs and other things. But for sure, you don’t want to be shriveled up old prone as they alter
Shivan Sarna 23:38
You don’t, it makes all the difference. And it makes all the difference in your organs and your science, the science of the body.
Shivan Sarna 23:55
And if you see a pregnant woman, make sure she has a glass of water in her hand. I’ve been told to spread that message by a midwife.
Shivan Sarna 24:04
It’s just so important. So have some hair. Cheers. Have some water.
Misty Williams 24:10
Yeah, Have some water will tell us a little bit more about this event. It’s airing in October. It’s airing in October.
Shivan Sarna 24:16
The start date is October 24. Last week, it’s free. Well during that premiere. One of the other interesting things that I just wanted to mention is that the cadavers have been now able to be photographed in a microscopic way.
Shivan Sarna 24:37
And so that has moved the research forward very quickly. And as well. There’s an international group that those cadaver discoveries have truly transformed the way the medical community is seeing fascia.
Shivan Sarna 24:55
And one of the experiments, Dr. Slite was talking About this, and he’s in Germany, and he was talking about how everyone expected when they put the adrenaline stress on fascia they expected it to shrink.
Shivan Sarna 25:13
Not a thing, nothing happened to the fascia not a look, I’m staring at this, the adrenaline was, put on it, they were expecting these reactions.
Shivan Sarna 25:23
I don’t know the nuances. But the bottom line is, adrenaline did nothing. What didn’t do something to the fascia was exposed to an immune challenge.
Shivan Sarna 25:34
The fascia shrunk a millimeter a month, when it was exposed to an immunological challenge, which fascinated everybody.
Shivan Sarna 25:41
And it wasn’t expected. So just the fact that it was slower to receive than they thought as well, was really interesting.
Misty Williams 25:54
What kind of immune challenge? An autoimmune?
Shivan Sarna 25:58
It was a viral load that necessarily, but it was the body’s natural reaction to an immune challenge that then led to the shrinking of the fascia, millimeter per month.
Shivan Sarna 26:13
That just blew my mind. I thought it was so interesting. So really, because we’ve talked about how you could have tightened fascia from injury from repetitive motion from sitting patterns, and all that.
Shivan Sarna 26:26
But the immune system was a big bigger part of it than anyone had suspected. So there were some of the breakthroughs.
Shivan Sarna 26:34
And he also had a handheld ultrasound machine, where they could tell if you can buy on Amazon, which is crazy, that you could tell if part of your problem was muscular, or if it was the fascia.
Shivan Sarna 26:50
That’s crazy. That’s yeah, really, really interesting stuff.
Misty Williams 26:53
This is a field that’s kind of expanding right before eyes.
Shivan Sarna 26:56
Exactly, Which is very, very exciting.
Shivan Sarna 26:59
And I love it when the curiosity of all of our medical detectives that we’ve become, can match up with these new discoveries.
Shivan Sarna 27:12
And it’s very late, right? We should have been thinking about this for eons, but it’s also super new. So we’ll take it, we got it.
Misty Williams 27:23
Yeah, awesome. Well, we have links to sign up for the summit in the show notes, go to healingrosie.com Just look for this interview with Shivan. And thank you so much sister, for putting this together.
Misty Williams 27:36
It’s so fascinating and inspiring when we get to gather up all this latest newest research and science and share it with people.
Misty Williams 27:49
That we can leverage it to take the findings and the understandings we glean from it to figure out what we’re going to do for our own situations.
Misty Williams 27:56
I’ve learned so much from being a host of these events, you get to interview so many people and learn so much and I wish things like this for around a decade ago when my journey started.
Misty Williams 28:07
There wasn’t a way to get this information at our fingertips. So really inspiring. Thank you for the work that you’re doing and for joining us today.
Shivan Sarna 28:14
Misty Williams 28:15
All right, we’ll see you guys soon. Bye for now. That’s it for this week’s episode. Thank you for listening. I hope you’re feeling more empowered to overcome your flabby, foggy and fatigue and to reclaim your life.
Misty Williams 28:27
If you haven’t subscribed yet, don’t forget to hit that subscribe button right now so you don’t miss any of our episodes. We have some awesome shows coming right up.
Misty Williams 28:35
I love reading your reviews and comments too. They inspire me and encourage other Rosie’s to hang out with us and learn all these amazing strategies for healing and living our best lives. Till next time sister. Bye