Healing Rosie

Deborah Fryer - Create support when you're stressed to the max!

Magic Tricks to Create Support When You’re Stressed to the Max!

Women naturally bring supportive energy to relationships. 

Social conditioning plus the heart and soul we put into what we are creating makes us overly accountable for others’ happiness and well-being.

We do it all…

Because of this, we keep giving, giving, giving that supportive energy. And we often lose track of our own needs.

We give more than we’re getting. 

It is depleting and soul-crushing, leading to cycles of burnout and stress that aren’t good for our bodies or our health.

This was especially true for me in my early adult life. I had a belief that I was really strong and capable. I could handle a lot of things. 

And people could count on me. I was resilient, I never gave up easily.

As a natural leader who didn’t know how to hold others accountable or to make sure that my needs were met, I didn’t know how to create support for myself.

Over time, the stress created so much burnout.

The realization that I wasn’t managing my life well made me make big shifts around what I expected if I was going to assume leadership or be accountable for results. 

Have you been in a situation where others relied on you for accountability and support… bringing you to the edge of burnout?. 

This episode with my fabulous friend, Dr. Deborah Fryer will shift your mindset around how to create support when you’re stressed to the max.

I want to help you more powerfully receive what you need to keep showing up powerfully for others. 

In this episode, we’ll discuss how to create support and:

  • How to make yourself visible, valuable and valid to create mutually fulfilling relationships
  • One liberating way to communicate and get what you need without feeling guilt, shame and selfishness
  • The common misconception about getting the support you need–and how these toxic beliefs keep you stuck
  •  2 effective ways to make a relationship work when it’s too important to let go
  • A handy worksheet that will help you let go of disappointment, anger and frustration towards others to relieve stress and avoid burnout

We've been conditioned to believe that our contributions are worth less than men. And as a result, I believe that we walk around feeling worthless in some subconscious way.

So we have to unlearn the expectation that we matter less. That our contributions are less valuable, our voices, our opinions, and our feelings are less valid. They are just as valid as anybodys. And until we reclaim our wholeness, we can't operate fully in relationships in our businesses as leaders.

Deborah Fryer

ABOUT Deborah Fryer, PhD.

Deborah Fryer - Create support when you're stressed to the max!

Dr. Deborah Fryer helps coaches, consultants and creative entrepreneurs break through subconscious mental, emotional and financial blocks using her proven Anatomy of Money System. She can help you integrate your conscious and nonconscious responses to money, power and authority so you can be emotionally and financially free. When you master your mindset, you can go beyond your mental walls and blast through your wealth ceiling with ease, speed and confidence.

resources mentioned


  • [02:49]
    What women don’t always have that makes men more successful in their accountabilities
  • [09:47]
    A common pit women fall into when looking for validation that leads to stress and burnout
  • [14:42]
    What is the Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine and why we need both to find flow and balance in our lives
  • [21:08]
    The ancestral conditioning that we have to break free from to reclaim our wholeness and step up as leaders
  • [28:16]
    How to manage supportive and accountable energy in a team so that you can lead from your zone of genius
  • [31:37]
    Why you need discipline and structure to create more freedom
  • [33:27]
    Strategies to evolve from your childhood conditioning to show up powerfully in business and your relationships
  • [41:19]
    How to value yourself without feeling guilty or shameless
  • [49:38]
    The first step you take to learn how to receive when you’ve only been giving your whole life
  • [57:35]
    What is “intentional creation” and why is it critical in building flow in relationships
  • [1:00:14]
    Why uplifting yourself first will uplift others
  • [1:04:25]
    How to communicate your non-negotiables to creative freedom within relationships
  • [1:10:00]
    2 effective ways to make a relationship work when it’s too important to let go
  • [1:17:16]
    A handy worksheet that will help you let go of disappointment, anger and frustration towards others to relieve stress and avoid burnout



Misty Williams  00:01

Hey, sister, this is Misty Williams, founder of healing rosie.com. And I’m so excited to welcome you to Rosie radio, tune in to find clarity, direction and hope for your healing. 


Misty Williams  00:10

New episodes drop every Tuesday, we created this show to empower you to regain control of your life and feel like yourself again. Yes, sister, it is possible. 


Misty Williams  00:20

I am just so excited about the conversation that I’m going to have with my friend Deborah today.


Misty Williams  00:28

If you’ve been part of the healing Rosie community, you’ve probably heard me share some of my story in the struggle that I had, especially when my journey first started around being an entrepreneur and dealing with a lot of stress. 


Misty Williams  00:40

And as a woman, not really knowing how to manage or mitigate the work stress that I was feeling. 


Misty Williams  00:48

I had a belief about myself that I’m really strong and I’m capable, and I can handle a lot of things. And people can count on me. And I’m resilient. 


Misty Williams  00:58

And I don’t give up right? Like all these things were deep identifiers that really went back to the little girl who was seven years old, helping mom at home watching your sisters while parents ran errands. 


Misty Williams  01:10

Cleaning the house, making sure we did our chores like just responsibility that a seven year old, shouldn’t have. I look at my nieces and nephews. I have a niece. 


Misty Williams  01:18

She’s almost seven. And I’m just like, what was my thinking. But somehow, whatever I embody that age made her feel like she could really count on me and trust me and I that was my identity. 


Misty Williams  01:28

That’s who I felt I had to be in this world in this life. And a couple of years into my journey. With my health, I started experiencing these deepening cycles of burnout. 


Misty Williams  01:40

Certainly there had been times earlier in my career where I felt, a little bit burnt out a little rundown. 


Misty Williams  01:46

But these were like deep like soul crushing, depleting, devastating cycles of burnout. And I would I would experience his burnout. 


Misty Williams  01:54

And then I would come out of it. And, and I would go charge again, and it would happen again. And I can’t even describe how demoralizing it was to pour so much of your heart and soul into something. 


Misty Williams  02:06

And to feel like you get to the end of the road. And it’s for not like things don’t turn out like you expect. I was really struggling at the time with my team. 


Misty Williams  02:16

And I did not know how to be the leader that got other people to be as accountable as I was being, right?. And it’s really because I was so overly accountable that I didn’t give space for other people to be accountable. 


Misty Williams  02:29

And so I didn’t attract people who wanted to be accountable because I took all the Accountable energy. 


Misty Williams  02:35

And my life started changing for the better around 38-39 When I found the work of Alison Armstrong, and she’s an amazing teacher on relationships and relating not just romantic relationships relating in general. 


Misty Williams  02:49

I started studying partnership and the inner the energetics of partnership. And I realized that in my life, I was showing up as both provider accountable energy and supporter enhancer energy.


Misty Williams  03:04

I was providing I was I was handling all the accountability, I was supporting energetically, everything was going out, nothing was coming in. 


Misty Williams  03:14

I actually had no idea how to shift this pattern. It was confronting and illuminating and relieving all at the same time. 


Misty Williams  03:25

She started explaining how men much more naturally because of how were socialized in our society, they more naturally expect to support if they are going to be accountable. 


Misty Williams  03:37

And by receiving support, they’re able to fully show up and be accountable and also be successful in their accountability, right?. 


Misty Williams  03:46

If a man isn’t receiving support, he tends to release let go of not take on the accountability. And like I saw that I looked at how my father was.


Misty Williams  03:57

I looked at how the men I respected in my life where they all had so much more support than what I had in my life. And I started seeing like I was looking into this mirror of I am the problem. 


Misty Williams  04:09

I started making some really big shifts around what I expected if I was going to be accountable, and I didn’t want to be accountable all the time. 


Misty Williams  04:19

So I actually learned how to build a team where I shifted accountability down so that I could show up as supporter, they could be accountable. I’m more in my natural essence. 


Misty Williams  04:29

I quit having cycles of burnout, things Quit being such a struggle, I was able to move into a whole different space attract the love of my life. 


Misty Williams  04:36

We’ve been together for four years now. Like just everything changed with these principles and concepts. 


Misty Williams  04:42

So we’re going to talk to Deborah today about the divine feminine and how to show up more in your life with this supporter enhance her feminine energy that for women especially, is more native to us and in our society. 


Misty Williams  04:56

We’re not taught that embodiment in this energy is okay,” Hey, if you want to be successful and all of these things”, but I would also say that this is a really important conversation for men because first of all, you’re in relationships with women. 


Misty Williams  05:08

But second of all, everyone has masculine and feminine in them. And one of the things I love about my partner is that he’s really in touch not only with his masculine provider directive, go after it energy. 


Misty Williams  05:24

He’s a mechanic, he works with his hands, he fixes everything, he’s fantastic. But he’s also in touch with the more open supportive,


Misty Williams  05:35

generous energy that often characterizes femininity, and I love that about him, I love that we can talk about our feelings together. 


Misty Williams  05:44

I love that he is very tender and gentle and loving with me. I’ve been with men who weren’t in touch with the supportive side of their own being. And it’s hard. 


Misty Williams  05:59

As a woman, it’s hard because over time, there’s limited ways that you can connect. And I can also see for these men, the connection that they’re missing in their own life. 


Misty Williams  06:09

And at the end of the day, what makes us all feel supported and safe and what reduces our stress, it’s connection, it’s togetherness. 


Misty Williams  06:18

It’s feeling like we’re not alone. So this conversation is going to be really really really really fabulous. 


Misty Williams  06:23

Dr. Deborah fryer is a money mindset mentor, spiritual business coach and creator of the anatomy of money system for holistic wealth and well being. 


Misty Williams  06:31

She helps heart centered entrepreneurs break through subconscious mental, emotional and financial blocks, so they can create sustainable soul aligned six or seven figure businesses with ease speed and confidence without working harder, feeling guilty, downplaying your success or selling your soul. 


Misty Williams  06:47

Deborah holds a PhD in comparative literature from Princeton, and she’s an award winning filmmaker who has created content for PBS Nova frontline, the National Science Foundation, and other media channels. 


Misty Williams  06:58

She also completed a post baccalaureate pre medical degree, and has been teaching and practicing yoga and meditation for over 30 years, her unique blend of ancient wisdom and modern science. 


Misty Williams  07:08

Narrative Medicine and creative visualization has helped 1000s of business owners around the world, change their minds, their mindset, and their relationship to money, power, and true wealth. 


Misty Williams  07:18

She’s the author of best brain hacks, turn on your tap and the forthcoming anatomy of money, your inside guide to wealth. Welcome, Deborah.


Deborah Fryer  07:26

Thank you, I’m so excited to be here to have this conversation with you. Yes,


Misty Williams  07:30

I’m so excited to we were talking a little bit before we started recording about kind of probably a defining moment in your life, when you lost your father to stress. 


Misty Williams  07:43

And really started deeply exploring what stress is, what it does to the body, and what we need to do in order to live with less stress. So I’d love for you just to kind of kick things off and take us into this experience you had.


Deborah Fryer  08:01

So my background, as you’ve already shared is, I am a documentary filmmaker, and I was making films about the environment, about climate change, about science. And I was also teaching yoga and meditation. 


Deborah Fryer  08:12

And I felt like those two worlds had to be completely separate. When I was working for Nova and Frontline, I had to have my professional hat on I had to be a scientist, I had to be evidence based. 


Deborah Fryer  08:23

And nobody could know that I meditated. Nobody could know about the realms that I accessed through meditation, because it just seemed so weird. 


Deborah Fryer  08:32

And Whoo!, I thought, they would fire me if they knew that I was that weird. And then, no, I had this other part of me when I was teaching yoga and meditation. 


Deborah Fryer  08:43

And I lived in those realms of consciousness that people wanted to access and they wanted to know how to access that. 


Deborah Fryer  08:52

And so there, I didn’t let people know about the nerdy sciency evidence parts when I was living this super compartmentalized life. And my income was also very compartmentalized. 


Deborah Fryer  09:02

When I was on a project, I was on the moon, I felt really good about myself ahead income, I felt like I was contributing and I was happy, then the project would end. And I felt like I fell through the ice. 


Deborah Fryer  09:14

And I had to use overdraft protection to pay my bills. I was in debt every day month. And it was really frustrating. 


Deborah Fryer  09:21

And I didn’t understand how could I be so smart and so stupid about money? How could I be so artistic, and have such a blind spot about this thing that touches everything? 


Deborah Fryer  09:33

And so I decided in an in a kind of way of making decisions that a lot of people make decisions in that is an extremely stressful way of making decisions. 


Deborah Fryer  09:47

I made a decision that I wasn’t good enough as I am, and that I needed some external validation for me to be good enough. 


Deborah Fryer  09:55

So I thought I needed to go to medical school to get a real paycheck or real respect. consistent income, I would actually be somebody if I went to medical school. 


Deborah Fryer  10:04

So this way of thinking is extremely, extremely stressful. Because what we’re telling our subconscious minds is I’m not okay, as I am, I need external validation, external money, external respect, external approval, in order for me to be okay. 


Deborah Fryer  10:19

And since I don’t control any of that external stuff, my okayness is not in my control. So I just want to pull back the curtain on my own experience, 


Deborah Fryer  10:29

I wasn’t aware of it when I was in it. And now that I have this perspective, I’m really on a mission to help everyone live a life of unconditional love, unconditional creativity, unconditional freedom to self express in the authentic way that only you can. 


Deborah Fryer  10:46

So here I am, on my way to medical school. And I decided I need to go to medical school so that I can have a real paycheck and have real respect. 


Deborah Fryer  10:54

So I had to do all the post baccalaureate premedical training, because my PhD was not in a medical science, it was in comparative literature. 


Deborah Fryer  11:04

So here I am studying anatomy and physiology and psychology and biology and organic chemistry. And I’m doing all this lab stuff. And I was working in an anatomy lab for two years. 


Deborah Fryer  11:15

And it was just the coolest thing ever to get my hands into the body and to explore the nervous system and the heart and the lungs and the kidneys. 


Deborah Fryer  11:23

And it was just beautiful and, and mystical. It was this transcendent experience for me. 


Deborah Fryer  11:29

And in the middle of this experience, my dad dropped out of a heart attack. He was sitting at his computer, reading the news, and then he fell off his chair and he was done. 


Deborah Fryer  11:39

And it’s a big deal when you lose parent, it’s a big deal when a parent transitions. And so my dad left his body. 


Deborah Fryer  11:51

And the next day, it was my job to go into the anatomy lab, and take the heart out of the cadaver to prepare it for the students.


Deborah Fryer  12:00

And I remember saying to my teacher to my boss, I can’t do this. And she said, Of course I understand. And I thought about it. And I thought I cannot do this,


Deborah Fryer  12:08

 I have to see what killed my dad, I have to understand that. So I went into the anatomy lab. And I did remove the heart from a cadaver. 


Deborah Fryer  12:15

And it turns out this cadaver, had also died of a massive coronary just like my dad did. 


Deborah Fryer  12:20

And when the heart is performing optimally, it empties and fills empty cells, empty cells, empty cells. 


Deborah Fryer  12:27

And it works in a coordinated fashion, of expand, contract, empty, filled, give receive old new, it’s constantly in this dance, which is what’s keeping us alive.


Deborah Fryer  12:39

That I saw in an instant that I had been running my complete build my business completely backwards.


Deborah Fryer  12:45

 I had been over giving and not charging. I had been giving, giving giving my time I’ve been pulling all nighters and not allowing myself to sleep.


Deborah Fryer  12:53

I’ve been skipping meals, I would go entire days without eating because I thought I just need to get this done. I need to get it done. I need to get it done for them. 


Deborah Fryer  13:00

We’re going to pay me completely forgetting that if I don’t nourish me, how can I operate at my optimal. And it was just so obvious to me holding the heart in my hands, that .


Deborah Fryer  13:11

I needed to learn to be a great receiver that I had been operating completely counter to the laws of nature, 


Deborah Fryer  13:17

I’ve been operating completely counter to every organ system in the body, the heart is expanding and contracting lungs are expanding and contracting your digestive system is taking in and letting go. 


Deborah Fryer  13:30

This is the peristalsis This is the digestive process, right? Every single cell of me is participating in this. But I for some reason had excluded myself as if the laws of biology and physics did not pertain to me. 


Deborah Fryer  13:48

And it was just this huge, huge like the entire universe dropped in and tears are streaming and I walked out of the anatomy lab that day. 


Deborah Fryer  13:56

And I remember looking up at the trees, it was an October day in Colorado, and the Aspen’s had turned this beautiful gold color. 


Deborah Fryer  14:03

And I remember saying to the trees, how do you do this? How do you transform so beautifully, so dramatically without drama? 


Deborah Fryer  14:16

It was a both and the trees are so exquisite and people are traveling from around the world to look at the Aspen’s changing color. 


Deborah Fryer  14:26

And the transformation is a beautiful thing. And why is it so hard for me to drop? My old story of I’m a starving artist. I can’t make money. 


Deborah Fryer  14:35

I don’t have anything to offer all that stuff. How come it’s so hard for me and it’s so easy for you. 


Deborah Fryer  14:42

And the tree said, Watch us we’ll teach you and this is the Divine Feminine because what the trees are showing us is that everything is part of the cycle. 


Deborah Fryer  14:53

The changing of the leaves and letting go of the leaves is actually creating the compost For the next generation of growth, the letting go of the leaves, is allowing more light to get in. 


Deborah Fryer  15:07

And I just started seeing all these metaphors and receiving all of these messages about how everything is in a continuous cycle. 


Deborah Fryer  15:16

It’s not on off. It’s not this or that. And this is where burnout comes from. Right? 


Deborah Fryer  15:23

I’m doing too much, and I totally have to quit. I’m totally over it. And then I just have to like disappear. And recognizing that everything is part of a cycle changed everything for me. 


Deborah Fryer  15:36

And of course, the divine feminine, is interested in collaboration, it’s interested in movement that is circular rather than linear. It’s interested in inclusion and collaboration and the collective rather than one unique thing. 


Deborah Fryer  15:56

We need both. So I’m going to talk about the divine feminine, and I’m going to talk about the divine masculine. 


Deborah Fryer  16:01

Because the divine masculine is here to support the divine feminine, we need both, we can’t do one or the other. Yeah,


Deborah Fryer  16:11

I was, as you were talking, I was remembering one of the big aha moments that I had, as I was, like getting in touch with this concept of giving and receiving, 


Misty Williams  16:21

I recognize that in my relationships, often, especially where I felt some accountability or responsibility to another person, whatever their experience was that they were having a hard time a struggle. 


Misty Williams  16:33

They’re going through something in their life, I let their experience fill the space. And I held off what I needed to be in the relationship and have my needs met too. 


Misty Williams  16:49

Because I put more importance on what they were experiencing. And I remember dating this guy who was going through a divorce, we’d been friends, and found out he was going through a divorce. 


Misty Williams  17:04

He was really devastated about it. We were friends through this time. And after about a year we started dating, and there was still a lot of pain for him around the divorce. 


Misty Williams  17:13

And I wish I remember the details of the situation like what was happening at the time, I just remember seeing that I was letting his experience, create the context and container for all of our relating. 


Misty Williams  17:29

And I was not giving voice to my own experience and what I was feeling. And I remember sharing some things with him that were coming up for me that were important to me. 


Misty Williams  17:40

And his response was, I’m not sure what to do with that. And my response back was, I don’t know if there’s anything for you to do with that. 


Misty Williams  17:48

I think what I’m doing in this moment is I need to see me, I need to acknowledge me, I need to like, feel worthy of having my perspective represented here. 


Misty Williams  18:00

And it was just as these words are coming out of my mouth, it was like something deep inside of me, was teaching me in that moment. I don’t know that I had that conscious awareness before that moment that I was doing something that was so detrimental to me. 


Misty Williams  18:16

And there was a shift in my spirit, just saying that it was like, yes, yes. And I started, I felt this release, like, oh, my gosh, I do this to myself, all of the time. 


Misty Williams  18:28

Someone is having a challenging day, a challenging experience, they’re overwhelmed by something, 


Misty Williams  18:34

I let their experience define our entire interaction or exchange and I make myself invisible. This was so chronic in my life. And I could probably tell story after story just to kind of bounce off what you’re saying. 


Misty Williams  18:48

Because as as a, as a woman navigating this reality, right now I was, I was invisible to myself. And when you’re invisible to yourself.


Misty Williams  19:01

And you don’t see you and you don’t give your experience permission to exist in the space between you and other people. I didn’t need anything from this guy in that moment. 


Misty Williams  19:12

And I realized that after I said it, I needed nothing from him. I needed it from me. I needed it from me. 


Misty Williams  19:18

And it was like this deep healing that started happening, this awareness of how much I made myself invisible. 


Misty Williams  19:25

And I stopped doing that. And in my partnership now, with Roderick, there are times that he’s overwhelmed, and he wants his experience to define our interaction, and I can listen and acknowledge what he’s feeling. 


Misty Williams  19:38

And with strength, say, I’m having a different experience. And this needs to be on the table as we’re navigating this right. And because of this, we have a very healthy partnership. 


Misty Williams  19:48

Because of this. I don’t have resentment. I don’t feel invisible. I don’t feel overwhelmed by how much this requires of me. I’m able to stay in this real Eating. And we’ve created something really beautiful. 


Misty Williams  20:03

But it has nothing to do really, with what Roderick is bringing to the relationship. And he’s a wonderful person, right. 


Misty Williams  20:10

But I think it really highlights my own incompetence around creating sustainable, mutually fulfilling relationships that were deep and abiding because I, I so made myself invisible all the time. 


Misty Williams  20:24

And it just kind of goes back to I am unworthy of support, I don’t need support the world needs me to give the world doesn’t need me to receive I can’t take more from the world.


Misty Williams  20:34

 I think of my mom’s, she’s giving so much already, I don’t want to take more from her. And it’s this pattern that just backed me into this corner and suffocated me.


Misty Williams  20:44

We talk about like, this healing that needs to happen in our bodies, and it can’t happen if we are constantly feeling so deeply depleted, because of how we make ourselves invisible in our own lives.



It’s so top of mind for so many people, especially women. And I think a lot of this comes from our personal conditioning, you’ve just shared some of the personal stuff that affected you. 


Deborah Fryer  21:08

There’s also stuff in our ancestral conditioning and their stuff in the collective consciousness. And as a woman, and I can only speak about my experience as a woman, we have been taught that we are worth less than men, 


Deborah Fryer  21:23

we have been taught on on consciously subconsciously, that we deserve to be paid less than men, women are paid less than men. And what, this is changing slowly. 


Deborah Fryer  21:36

But the conditioning for our parents and our grandparents was that we know we’re worth less women only recently got the right to vote, right got the right to be the money holders. 


Deborah Fryer  21:48

And because we’ve been conditioned to believe that we’re worthless, women negotiate less when women apply for jobs, they will say, Oh, I’m not qualified if they have 70-80% of the skills, whereas men will have 50%. 


Deborah Fryer  22:03

And they’ll say, oh, yeah, I can totally do it. Right, we’ve been, we’ve been conditioned to believe that our contributions are worth less than men. 


Deborah Fryer  22:11

And as a result, I believe that we walk around feeling worthless in some subconscious way. And so what you’re speaking about that, that we need to fulfill our needs directly, we need to recognize my voice is valid, and so is yours. 


Deborah Fryer  22:26

And the conditioning, to diminish ourselves so that you feel okay about you. Right, you’ve done it with your mom, you’ve done it with your ex boyfriends. 


Deborah Fryer  22:34

I’ve also done it with I don’t know any woman who has not done that, because we’ve been conditioned to do that. So we have to unlearn. 


Deborah Fryer  22:43

The expectation that we matter less, that our contributions are less valuable, our voices, our opinions, our feelings are less valid, they are just as valid as anybody’s. 


Deborah Fryer  22:56

And until we reclaim our wholeness, we can’t operate fully in relationships in our businesses as leaders. Yeah. Great, great. Yeah.


Deborah Fryer  23:08

This is this is such an important conversation. And I hope there’s people listening right now that are nodding, this isn’t something that just women do. 


Misty Williams  23:17

I’ve talked to my guy friends about there’s definitely, men and women both do this in different ways. And maybe it looks a little different. 


Misty Williams  23:24

But I think all of us at some point when we feel like we’re not as worthy as the other person, or when we put more emphasis on having compassion for the other person than we do you want having compassion for ourselves, we create these really unhealthy dynamics, and it’s super toxic.



Yeah, I think I agree with you that men also experienced this. And I believe that men experience it a little bit differently in the way that women are told that we’re too emotional, we shouldn’t be emotional in business. 


Deborah Fryer  23:58

And I believe that it is actually one of our superpowers, our, our sensitivity, our ability to be intuitive and to feel, and to sense and to perceive and to allow that to infuse our interactions. 


Deborah Fryer  24:12

Men have also been taught, don’t be so emotional, right? That’s something that women do. So I think that men also really struggle with,


Deborah Fryer  24:21

I need to express a feeling but I’m not allowed to, it’s not culturally acceptable for me to cry or for maybe vulnerable, or for me to say I have a need, 


Deborah Fryer  24:29

I’m supposed to figure it out. I’m supposed to face it. And that example you brought up is a perfect example of how all of us get caught up in the masculine paradigm. I’m not talking about gender. 


Deborah Fryer  24:40

I’m talking about the energetics of the masculine, which is there’s a problem I need to fix it. This is associated with the conscious mind, the part that wants to control the part that wants to know how, and if we’re operating from there’s a problem. 


Deborah Fryer  24:53

We’re going to create problems where there aren’t any so that we have something to fix, and it might show up your part So what do you want me to do with that he was in his unconscious masculine. 


Deborah Fryer  25:04

And you are like, I didn’t ask you to fix it, I don’t want you to fix it, I want you to hold space for me to be present with what is. And that’s the aligned divine masculine, is holding space for the isness.


Misty Williams  25:20

I was going to just say, let’s talk a little bit about the ways in which in these, especially in professional work environments, but certainly this can show up in any place that women especially are needing to be in that accountable. 


Misty Williams  25:37

Protector energy, what are some of the mistakes that we’re making? What are some of the things that are really tripping us up? And how do we start creating some shifts?


Deborah Fryer  25:49

Great question. So let’s talk about this from a business perspective, is there are things that we need in our businesses to be successful, there are things we need in our business to be sustainable. 


Deborah Fryer  26:06

One of the most obvious things that we need in our businesses to be successful and to be sustainable, is we need money to flow through our businesses. So many women are afraid to charge. 


Deborah Fryer  26:17

And I mean, it’s a really obvious thing that if you don’t charge for your services, how can someone pay you for your services. 


Deborah Fryer  26:24

And I believe that the reason, there are lots of reasons why women don’t charge, but one of the reasons that women don’t charge is because of the conditioning that says, I need to do this for other people, 


Deborah Fryer  26:34

I’m not allowed to receive it for me. So I’m gonna give it for free, we’re so used to over giving, and we’re so not used to receiving and we need to learn to strengthen that muscle of receiving.


Deborah Fryer  26:46

So that it’s okay for me to receive money for the goods, or service or expertise or product that I’m contributing to the world. 


Deborah Fryer  26:55

Women also, I have worked with many clients who do the work, but they’re afraid to invoice for it. So they’re afraid to go and collect what they deserve, they’ve actually done the work. 


Deborah Fryer  27:09

But if the work takes more hours, or if that say the client is building a website, and it turns out that the website became three times bigger, they’re afraid to adjust the agreement in accordance with the work that they’ve done. 


Deborah Fryer  27:27

So there’s an internal fear of valuing self, of deserving self that will show up in Oh, I’m afraid to invoice that I think I should is kind of a deal, right? 


Deborah Fryer  27:36

We make up a story about what they can or can’t afford. And what they can or can’t afford is none of my business. They hired me to do the work and it’s my responsibility to embrace them. Yeah. Right. 


Deborah Fryer  27:46

So that’s a way that that we unwittingly are afraid to be in our masculine, the masculine Think of it like a garden hose. 


Deborah Fryer  27:54

It’s the channel through which the flow flows or think that like a bowl, it’s the container in which the creativity sets. 


Deborah Fryer  28:01

And if you don’t have a system, a structure, a process and SOP, right, these are the masculine processes that we need in our business. 


Deborah Fryer  28:16

How can you as as the life force as the, the creative generator of your business, have a playground in which you feel safe playing. So that’s one another way is with team. 


Deborah Fryer  28:25

So we talk a lot about how when we’re building team, when we have team that really allows us to be in our zone of genius. So let’s look at the team inside your head. 


Deborah Fryer  28:35

Before we look at the team out here, right your people, let’s look at the DNA inside your head. So you shared a beautiful example of something that many women have operating. 


Deborah Fryer  28:45

I know I’ve had it operating in myself, and I still do from time to time, which is that conversation inside the head that says, Oh, this one gets to be at bat. And I’m just going to sit on the bench.


Deborah Fryer  29:00

Right you share that you let the your other person’s needs totally filled space, and you just went invisible. And that’s not you being a team player in your business. Right? 


Deborah Fryer  29:10

All of you is on your team. And so it’s the work that I do with clients really is is to help them realize that part of you that’s been sitting on the bench that really wants to get in the game. 


Deborah Fryer  29:20

We’re gonna put her in the game as Brene Brown says we got to get in the ring. And so how are we allowing all the parts of us to be valid? 


Deborah Fryer  29:31

The parts of us that feel ashamed or the parts of us that feel unloved, that feel unheard, that feel unworthy? 


Deborah Fryer  29:37

What did they need, so they recognize their contribution is just as valuable as the one who gets it out of the park? Because all of you is on your team. 


Deborah Fryer  29:46

And if you don’t allow for that, you’re always operating at a partial percentage of your wholeness. You’re operating at a partial percentage of your potential. 


Deborah Fryer  29:57

If you never allow those parts of you Do I really want to play to play. So there’s, there’s inner teamwork. And then there’s the outer team. So let’s say you hire outer team, and they keep messing things up. 


Deborah Fryer  30:11

Well, it’s your business. So again, this is the divine masculine, have, you need to have a conversation with them, you need to help them. And perhaps they’re in the wrong role in your business, 


Deborah Fryer  30:21

they need to be in a different role in your business, perhaps they’re not growing as fast as you and I, Misty are really experiencing hyper growth in a way that’s sustainable. 


Deborah Fryer  30:31

And that’s the key there, that hyper growth is sustainable when we’re feeling supported. And some times not everybody grows at the same rate. 


Deborah Fryer  30:45

And we see this in nature, the Daffodil blooms at a different time and for a different length of time than the rose. 


Deborah Fryer  30:53

And the rose blooms at a different time and a different length of time from the line lock. And each one of them is beautiful in their expression. 


Deborah Fryer  31:00

But it might not be appropriate for you to have the rose be doing the job of the daffodil, it can’t. 


Deborah Fryer  31:06

And we need to recognize this with our team members, that sometimes the team member is not in the right role, or they need more support in the role they’re in so that they can elevate to the level that you are, or perhaps they don’t belong in your business at all. 


Deborah Fryer  31:20

And you can lovingly say, thank you so much. And we’re complete. And that’s part of the Divine Masculine also is recognizing that you having boundaries that you have in clear structure will actually contribute to freedom. 


Deborah Fryer  31:37

So many women, I know, resist discipline, resist structure, because they say it impinges on their freedom. And in my opinion, I believe that the more structure we have, the more discipline we have, the more freedom we have. 


Deborah Fryer  31:51

Because if you think about again, the example of a garden hose, if you put your finger over the garden hose, you reach way farther, because the expression, the water coming out of the hose is way more powerful. 


Deborah Fryer  32:04

And so when you have structure, your reach is way more powerful, you’re way more laser, and you get 10 times more done in a fraction of the time, which means you end up with more free time.


Misty Williams  32:17

Yeah, I’m sitting here listening, thinking this is obviously this is shows up in business. But this shows up in our families and our homes, shows up in our greater family structure, extended family, it shows up in our social circles. 


Misty Williams  32:29

I mean, this, this idea is prevalent everywhere, why don’t we can maybe kind of run through a couple of these other examples of how this is showing up not just in business, but in other areas of our life, too.


Deborah Fryer  32:39

It was a business example, however it’s showing up in your business is a reflection of an imprint a mold, that you brought with you into your business. 


Deborah Fryer  32:53

And I’ve often thought that this work really needs to be in the corporate level, because the corporation is the family in a much bigger version, right? 


Deborah Fryer  33:05

There’s somebody in the family, who is the rule maker, there’s somebody in the family who is the rule breaker. 


Deborah Fryer  33:13

There’s somebody in the family, who’s the Peacekeeper, there’s somebody in the family who’s the people pleaser. There’s somebody in the family, who’s the disrupter. And all of those roles are necessary. Right. 


Deborah Fryer  33:27

And if let’s say in your family of origin, you learned to suppress your needs, because you didn’t want to disappoint somebody.


Deborah Fryer  33:36

I guarantee that’s going to show up in your relationship with your team, where you’re going to suppress your need to say, that actually didn’t work for me. 


Deborah Fryer  33:47

And because you don’t want to hurt their feelings or you don’t want to disappoint them, or what are you going to do if they leave, right you don’t want to be abandoned. 


Deborah Fryer  33:54

And that came from a very ancient part of you that didn’t want to be abandoned if your mom was mad at you. 


Deborah Fryer  34:00

So these conditions, this conditionality that we’ve learned, does not need to be the way that we move through life, we’re allowed to evolve. 


Deborah Fryer  34:13

And if we don’t do the inner work, if we don’t do the inner child work and the shadow work and the the retraining of the nervous system, we keep repeating the same thing over and over. 


Deborah Fryer  34:25

Because the way we do anything is the way we do everything. The essence of who we are, is unchanging. 


Deborah Fryer  34:32

The conditions change over time. So maybe in your family of origin, you perceive yourself as the outcast in the family. 


Deborah Fryer  34:45

And it may be that mean that this was how I perceived myself when I was younger, I perceived myself as the black sheep I perceived myself as the one who was in the corner with an easel. 


Deborah Fryer  34:55

Nobody paid attention to me. Nobody loved me. That’s what I thought you And years years later, in my 30s, I had a conversation with my sister. And we were in a group retreat around finding your purpose. 


Deborah Fryer  35:14

Maybe I was, yeah, I think it was in my new in my mid 30s. And, and the Word was love the facilitator through the word into the space love. And he said the journal about what the word love means to you. 


Deborah Fryer  35:26

So I took the word love. And to me, I felt unlovable if I was being an artist, because I perceived that nobody paid attention to me. Nobody valued my art. I thought it was a badge of shame to be so creative. 


Deborah Fryer  35:46

My sister took the word love. And she perceived, wow, Deborah gets so much attention because she’s so creative. I don’t get any attention because I’m looking at microscopes, right? 


Deborah Fryer  35:57

So I looked at her. And I saw she was getting attention from our dad, with biology and microscopes and rock polishers and all the fun stuff that chemistry sets that my dad did with her. 


Deborah Fryer  36:07

She didn’t do any of that with me. And my sister looked at everything I was creating, and said, I’m not getting any of that it was so fascinating to realize, wow, we’re both looking at each other. 


Deborah Fryer  36:19

And we both want what each other has. And it was just this fascinating moment of realizing the only thing in the room is actually love. And we both missed it.


Deborah Fryer  36:32

Yeah, are you were you saw the other getting at, but you didn’t see how.


Deborah Fryer  36:37

I saw your mother getting it. But we I didn’t see how I was getting it. And she didn’t see how she was getting it right, exactly. Like we both had a blind spot around that. So you know it. 


Deborah Fryer  36:46

So how does that show up in my business. So it used to show up in my business that I was really afraid of my clients be mad at me. I was really afraid they’d be mad at me. 


Deborah Fryer  36:59

I couldn’t show up. As a money coach, I couldn’t show up, really taking a fear stand for people valuing themselves for women valuing themselves for women owning their worth, until I did that myself, 


Deborah Fryer  37:11

I could not like be over here for one client and to be over here for another client. I’ve equally completely untrustworthy. 


Deborah Fryer  37:17

And this shows up in our businesses until we really do the inner work. And we develop an unwavering sense of oh, this is who I am. And I’m not going to apologize for it. Yeah.


Deborah Fryer  37:26

Yeah, it shows up in our families. It shows. Yeah, we can’t leave in our communities. He shows up in how we relate to people at church. It’s just like everywhere. 


Misty Williams  37:35

Yeah, one of the things as you were, you’re talking that came up for me is this, this realization of how much we are constantly caretaking. 


Misty Williams  37:47

For other people, we are anticipating what their experiences and somehow assuming responsibility for how they experienced us how they experience a given situation, how they experienced the trauma in their life, 


Misty Williams  38:00

how they experienced the loss, they just had, we take responsibility for things that aren’t our responsibility to take. And in so doing, we create an immense amount of stress. 


Misty Williams  38:16

And doing that also just kind of reinforces that I’m invisible. Often times and it’s another thing that I think is a really important dimension of this conversation is for each one of us to start getting more present to how we caretake .


Misty Williams  38:34

And how we are constantly morphing and accommodating and and considering and preferring another person’s experience above our own and you think about the toll that takes on the body for years. 


Misty Williams  38:54

And years of I’m not as important. I’m not enough my needs aren’t as important. I don’t matter enough I did this with my team. I would I would look at whatever their experience was. 


Misty Williams  39:07

Nevermind we had a deadline nevermind we had certain things I felt uncomfortable. Like having a requirement of this is what you’ll be accountable for.


Misty Williams  39:18

Because I’m caretaking around, whatever is showing up along with them in this shared space that we have. I would love for you to talk more about caretaking.


Deborah Fryer  39:28

Yeah, so it’s a big one. And there’s a there’s a shadow piece around this. That’s a really good one big shadow. Right. So when we take responsibility for someone else, it gives us a false sense of importance. Right? 


Deborah Fryer  39:42

I’m so important. I’m going to fix you I’m going to help you. you need me right. It gives me a sense of I’m so important and you need me


Misty Williams  39:51

talk about what shadow is for for someone watching who’s not familiar with the concept of, of of your shadow or there’ll be Being a shadow to the conscious projection, what is Shadow?


Deborah Fryer  40:07

Shadow is the part of ourselves that we disown that we shame that we’re uncomfortable with, that we would rather not acknowledge is a part of us. 


Deborah Fryer  40:18

So we get rid of it, we shove it into the closet, we disown it, we put it in a box, and we put it in the attic. 


Deborah Fryer  40:27

And we’re never going to open it again. But because that is a piece of who we are, we’re constantly looking for it. 


Deborah Fryer  40:34

And because we’re constantly looking for it, we will unconsciously find it in another person, because that’s actually a part of me that I’m looking for. 


Deborah Fryer  40:42

And your shadow can be your dark shadow or your light shadow. The dark shadow is let’s say, I don’t want anybody to know that I really want to make a lot of money. 


Deborah Fryer  40:52

Why? Because I have these beliefs that people will make a lot of money. They’re greedy, they trashed the environment. They’re misogynist, they’re XYZ. And I don’t want to be like that, right? 


Deborah Fryer  41:02

I’ve got a whole bunch of judgment that I hate on people who make a lot of money. So I can’t let anybody know that I want to make a lot of money. So that becomes my shadow. 


Deborah Fryer  41:09

I don’t want people to think I’m greedy. Well you’re gonna have to learn to value, you’re gonna have to learn to say, Hey, I matter and my time is valuable. 


Deborah Fryer  41:19

My voice is not as valuable, right? And it’s not actually greedy. There’s so much judgment around the feeling guilty around inserting myself into the conversation.


Deborah Fryer  41:28

I kind of tiptoe in and I like, just take a little crumb, no, you matter, you’re worthy, you’re deserving you deserve to be here. 


Deborah Fryer  41:36

This is your time take it. Right. But if we if we’ve got so much shame around the desire, we won’t let ourselves habit. And then we’ll project onto somebody else. 


Deborah Fryer  41:48

Oh, look at what a rich day hold that person is. Look how greedy that person is. Look how ostentatious that person is etc. Right? And


Misty Williams  41:55

what we’re really judgments often will reveal if you have the courage to look right what that shadow is. So let’s tie that back into the caretaking. 


Deborah Fryer  42:04

So in so in the caretaking. The image that pops to mind is the word selfish. So many people, women especially feel guilty when they spend time with themselves. 


Deborah Fryer  42:19

If you spend time meditating, and your kids come in the room, and they immediately say, Mommy, mommy, I need something and you feel guilty. You’re not allowing yourself to recognize I deserve this, 


Deborah Fryer  42:35

I need this. I’m the best mom ever when I give myself permission to meditate. And if we can’t really own, that, our desires are valid. Our needs for self reflection for self compassion, for self love for self forgiveness, are valid and necessary. 


Deborah Fryer  43:01

We will constantly be creating conflict in our lives. And we’ll look at other people who take time for themselves. And in that example, you might get really mad at your husband, because he’s taking time for himself. 


Deborah Fryer  43:14

And you get mad at him because he’s taking time for himself. You’re not actually mad at hand for taking time for himself. 


Deborah Fryer  43:20

You’re mad at you for not allowing you to take time for you. So that’s an example of shadow. ,


Misty Williams  43:25

So I’m going to share a real life example of that. In my partnership, about two years ago, Roderick started a business. So I’ve been an entrepreneur for 25 years. 


Misty Williams  43:37

And almost 22 Roderick just started the journey. So the first couple of years of our relationship, I enjoyed so much support from him at home. 


Misty Williams  43:49

He would take care of the cars, he would take care of fixing stuff around the house, he would take care of putting things together, he took care of all the handyman stuff, but he would also take care of dinner, he would take care of vacuuming the rugs, he would take care. 


Misty Williams  44:03

I mean, he just he really provided a lot he his career at the time, consisted of him going out and working really, really hard for about two or three weeks. He’s a mechanic in, in racing in high performance cars. 


Misty Williams  44:17

So he would go out and do these events at racetracks across the country. And he would bust his butt and then he would come home and he would have a few weeks off before he would have to go out and do it again. 


Misty Williams  44:26

So I enjoyed a lot of support from him. And it was one of the favorite things that I had about a relationship. When he started working. 


Misty Williams  44:34

He didn’t have the energy or the time we started his business and he’s working every day. 


Misty Williams  44:39

He didn’t have the energy or the time when he would come home. He just wanted to relax and he would relax. 


Misty Williams  44:44

And so I felt like just from my own wiring of like everything has to get done and I had to take responsibility for everything. 


Misty Williams  44:51

I was taking responsibility for everything at home and I was starting to feel resentment and I communicated this to him. 


Misty Williams  44:56

Like I’m feeling two things I’m feeling on the one hand like I totally under stand where you are, and what you’re building right now I’ve been through this cycles of this, I get it, and I really want you to feel supported. 


Misty Williams  45:07

And I am like stressed out because I’m taking care of everything at home, right. And I was trying to negotiate like more contribution for him it from him. 


Misty Williams  45:16

But he was not going to give more contribution because he felt like I’ve worked all day I need to recharge, I need to relax, right? 


Misty Williams  45:26

And, of course, I’m feeling like, Well, I would love to recharge, relax, do but I can’t do that. Because I have to take care of everything at home. And it was just kind of the cycle. 


Misty Williams  45:34

And I had this aha, it was in like November or December of last year, I had this aha of like, why can’t we just bring someone in to support us? To support me? 


Misty Williams  45:45

Why can’t we find a way so that I’m also not having to do all the things. And it was really challenging for me. At first, when I started thinking about this, it’s like, pay for someone to be a personal assistant for us. 


Misty Williams  46:00

There was a part of me that felt like, well, that’s not who I am. And I’m not the person that can, pay for that. I’m not one of those people. 


Misty Williams  46:07

And then I of course, I’m challenging myself, what is one of those people, what do you even? I don’t even 


Misty Williams  46:11

What are you even saying right now and it just was this loop that was playing. And I was just following all the threads, okay, I have these beliefs. And I’m assigning this meaning. 


Misty Williams  46:20

And I had to untangle and unravel this whole thing, to get to the point where He’s not wrong for not wanting to work. 


Misty Williams  46:29

When he comes home, I’m not wrong, for not wanting to work, the solution is not to make him do what he doesn’t want to do. 


Misty Williams  46:36

And the solution is not for me to keep doing all of this. Right. So we’d like to find another solution. And I just feel so relieved. And we both feel so supported in our relationship. 


Misty Williams  46:47

It’s in such a sweet, beautiful place. Because we have time together. We’re both relaxing and unwinding. And it’s just so nurturing. 


Misty Williams  46:57

And it was me needing to give myself permission to have the support that not expect it’s going to come from someone who doesn’t have it to give, right. 


Misty Williams  47:09

But it’s such a mind freeze Twister for me to invest some of our family budget and getting that. Am I worthy of this? is this really something that I neither should have. 


Misty Williams  47:24

And there’s also this recognition of I am detoxing mold right now, I need less stress, not more, I need to find ways to lighten my load, I need to stop making excuses for why I shouldn’t make the investment and I need to embrace what it is I really need it. 


Misty Williams  47:42

And it’s been absolutely life changing. But I am someone who’s done a lot, a lot, a lot of work on this stuff. 


Misty Williams  47:50

And dove deep into so many different modalities and teaching and trainings and integrating all of that. And yet still, it was a challenge. 


Misty Williams  47:59

So, I understand I relate to the whole shadow conversation in such an accessible like it, I just had this experience. 


Misty Williams  48:12

And if we can have the courage to look at our shadows, and then open ourselves to possibility instead of constantly projecting that out on other people, 


Misty Williams  48:22

We can move ourselves into a much better place, place where we’re more supported. but it does take a lot of courage for me to look at that for myself. 


Misty Williams  48:34

And I mentioned it to a friend. They’re like, Oh, yeah, you guys have so much going on. Of course you would do that. But that that wasn’t my conscious awareness around that experience, but we do this all the time. 


Misty Williams  48:48

I could probably sit here and tell you 10 stories of how this is showing up in my life. And and I hope that as people are watching and listening, that it gives them a little bit of a hey, I think this is showing up in my life too.


Deborah Fryer  49:02

Well, you said earlier that part of your conditioning was that you learned when you were little that your mom can count on you. Your mom can trust you. Yeah. 


Deborah Fryer  49:13

And you jumped to the conclusion that that meant that you were the person who was supposed to be counted on and you were the person who was supposed to be the trustworthy one. Yeah. 


Deborah Fryer  49:23

And what you are now also recognizing is that your mom was showing you a shadow piece, which was that your mom was showing you how to be a great receiver, because you’re such a giver, your mom was receiving from you, right? 


Deborah Fryer  49:38

And so you’re now allowing yourself to be a great receiver. And you’re recognizing that you can count on somebody else. 


Deborah Fryer  49:46

You can trust somebody else and you don’t have to do everything on your own idea of I have to do everything there’s nobody to support me. Is the Divine Feminine gone arrive? 


Deborah Fryer  49:56

Yeah, because it’s too dispersed and It does create depletion, it does create exhaustion. And if we just giveaway giveaway giveaway, and there’s no one to support me, 


Deborah Fryer  50:07

there’s no container for me and the divine masculine is, you’ve got a personal assistant, you’ve got team support to put the summit together. And that really allows you to be in your zone of genius. 


Deborah Fryer  50:21

And it’s a divine feminine way of allowing your personal assistant and your tech support and all the pieces that are supporting you be in your zone of genius. 


Deborah Fryer  50:31

They’re each in their zone of genius, and everybody benefits. It’s really a win win.


Deborah Fryer  50:36

Yeah, and I want to talk a little bit about how you create these relationships, because it’s one thing to say, count on everyone else in your life to support you. 


Misty Williams  50:45

And it’s another thing to have the kind of people in your life that you can count on. And I certainly had years of experience where I had wonderful people in my life, but I couldn’t count on them to support me. 


Misty Williams  51:00

And it reinforced the story that I can’t count on other people to support me, right? I can’t, I have to keep doing all the things because I don’t have people in my life to support me, right. 


Misty Williams  51:14

And it’s this self. It’s like a cycle. When I first started dating Roderick. This is how I dated for any women out there that one dating tips. This strategy was clutch. 


Misty Williams  51:27

It was clutch. I was on an app, I was on Bumble. And every single person that I interacted with, I had the same opening question. Tell me more.


Misty Williams  51:37

What are you looking for?


Deborah Fryer  51:39

I didn’t have a big agenda about what they were looking for necessarily. What I was gauging is, are you looking to create something with someone? 


Deborah Fryer  51:48

Or are you looking to entertain yourself with some surface connection? Right? 


Misty Williams  51:54

Or what are you looking for? If I spoke with a man who was threatened by this, what do you mean we just swiped right. 


Misty Williams  52:06

What are you saying? I could feel the defense’s of, Oh! don’t get close, don’t think for a minute that you’re gonna get close to me. For me, it was like he’s just not open. 


Misty Williams  52:18

If I talked to a man who was just really surface, I’m just looking for some cash, I’m really busy with work. And I don’t really have time for a relationship.


Misty Williams  52:27

But I really like to take someone out on dates and whatever it’s like, okay, well, that’s not what I’m looking for. 


Misty Williams  52:31

It’s not what I’m committed to creating. And it was just this process of elimination of the incredible swiping left, I was committed. 


Misty Williams  52:40

I was not going to spend time with a man who is in various stages of not ready for the previous 10 plus years of my life. I had boyfriends. 


Misty Williams  52:54

But the longest relationship was two years. I had one on and off guy for 10 years. It was ridiculous.


Deborah Fryer  53:02

But most of them was six months, three months, two months, I would get into it and be like this. This is a no. I at least learned enough to know when it was a no. But I wasn’t. 


Misty Williams  53:13

I wasn’t attracting the yes. So when Roderick and I first started talking on the apps, he was doing the casual thing. 


Misty Williams  53:20

Oh, I’m just in town for a few days, he was here for an event at Circuit of the Americas, which is the f1 track here in Austin, for those of you that are in that sort of into that sort of thing. 


Misty Williams  53:29

And he’s like I’m here for an event. I’m working with AMG Mercedes, I just want to find someone to maybe go have have drinks or snacks with after work. I mean, he was like super casual. 


Misty Williams  53:39

And I came back with. Okay, well, I hope you have an awesome time while you’re here. This isn’t really what I’m looking for. I’m not really looking to create a casual. 


Misty Williams  53:47

Someone’s in town, hook up, I’m actually super busy. But have a great time in Austin. And here’s a couple places you might want to check out while you’re here. 


Misty Williams  53:55

And I was done. He was I could see the little dots where he was messaging me back and I was gonna let him message me back when I was done with the conversation. 


Misty Williams  54:03

We were going to unmatch and he came back with a Hail Mary play of well, well wait, wait. So what I’m looking to create is I’ve always wanted to create a great home life with someone. 


Misty Williams  54:14

And then we started actually really having a deeper conversation. So we started connecting a little more. 


Misty Williams  54:20

This was me, recognizing that what I needed for partnership and to be supported with someone who was actually open to creating that, right?


Misty Williams  54:30

I tried so hard to be enough for all these people who were not ready, who are closed. So I remember the first week we were together we Roderick and I are easy. Sunday morning. We vibe. 


Misty Williams  54:43

We were really connected to each other. It’s we have fun together. We have similar interests and tastes and things even though a lot of ways we’re really different. But socially, I met his friends. 


Misty Williams  54:56

He met my friends that week. And we got to a point where he was, you want to come off the apps you want this to be, when I was still having some anxiety around, even though I loved our connection around. 


Misty Williams  55:08

I don’t really want to create a long distance relationship with someone. That’s not what I’ve committed to. 


Misty Williams  55:14

And I needed to know that if we were going to invest in this, we weren’t and we weren’t creating long distance relationship, you’re going to actually create a relationship, right? 


Misty Williams  55:20

You participate in my life, and I participate in your life and we’re talking on the phone every night, even if it’s for two minutes, I don’t care, I don’t want to texting buddy. 


Misty Williams  55:30

So I have these things. And I remember in the moment, thinking, I know what I need. But I had this fear around what if I say this, and it’s not for him. And he walks away leaves that it’s, back to square one again, someone’s not there. 


Misty Williams  55:50

My whole life I settled settled settled for, for just a warm body, really, that was there instead of someone who was really showing up for me. 


Misty Williams  56:00

So I call on my courage, and I told him, so a hell yes, looks for looks like we’re seeing each other every two to three weeks and not for the weekend, 


Misty Williams  56:09

I want four to five days a week. I don’t want to create a long distance relationship with someone. And I want us to connect every single day, even if it’s for a couple of minutes and not through texting, I don’t want to text somebody, this is what I want. 


Misty Williams  56:23

And I really set the conditions for creating something that would actually have the potential to meet my needs. And I had been doing that the previous probably four to six months of dating, but it was the first time I really did that. 


Misty Williams  56:39

In a in relating to a man and I had actually been practicing this with work, before really coming up to this point, starting to tell people, here’s the things I need you to be accountable and responsible for, and what do you need to be able to be accountable for this, but I want to be able to hold you accountable. 


Misty Williams  56:56

And of course, some people are no, right. But the candid real communication around that helped, it helped me to find the people who actually could provide that support. 


Misty Williams  57:06

And it’s all theory. And it’s the idea of support, I want people to see how you, you are creating this support in your life. And it’s so important that you’re making a stand for this. 


Misty Williams  57:22

And I would love for you, I am so excited for you to talk about your perspective on this and how this shows up and maybe giving people some strategies on how they can start creating this in their life.


Deborah Fryer  57:35

I love what you just shared around intentional creation, and intentional creation is not stressful, intentional creation is this is who I am, this is what I’m doing. 


Deborah Fryer  57:49

And we’re walking that into the world. And that’s exactly what you did. And the corollary to that is when we are reacting to something, and that’s what creates a lot of stress, 


Deborah Fryer  58:00

why I believe it creates a lot of stress, because when we’re reacting to something, we’re automatically coming from a one down position, if I’m only acting to something, it’s already been created by them. I’m reacting to my circumstances, 


Deborah Fryer  58:14

I’m reacting to his schedule, I’m reacting to his level of interest, I’m reacting to what he wants. And if it’s not what I want, I’m trying to shoehorn myself into reacting to what it is that he wants, and I’ve automatically devalued me, I’ve automatically contorted me to fit him.


Deborah Fryer  58:29

 And you just rose, you just said, this is what I need. This is what I’m looking for. This is what works for me. And, and if he was on the same page, you’re just going to keep going. 


Deborah Fryer  58:40

And there’s a famous Rumi line where he says what you are seeking is seeking you. And I’ve seen this over and over, when we’re super clear when we’re super laser. 


Deborah Fryer  58:52

This is the kind of client I work for. This is the kind of relationship I’m in. This is the kind of business I’m building. 


Deborah Fryer  58:57

This is the kind of leader I am and we walk forth as that. Who’s ever not in alignment with that will spin out of our orbit. 


Deborah Fryer  59:07

I say to my clients all the time when they say, Oh, well, my ideal client is XYZ but they can’t afford me. I’m like, Excuse me, if they can’t afford you. 


Deborah Fryer  59:14

They’re not your ideas or not. If they’re not your ideal client, your ideal client wants what you have to offer. 


Deborah Fryer  59:21

And they’re happy to pay you for it. Yeah, we’ve got to, it’s so unconscious. It’s so deeply buried in our conditioning that oh, I’m gonna give in they’re not gonna pay me. 


Deborah Fryer  59:33

No, you’re gonna give and they’re going to come forth, loving you, wanting more of you because they dig you, they value you, they want to co create with you and when when we’re in that kind of relationship where I’m in my wholeness and my partner’s my wholeness, we rise together. 


Deborah Fryer  59:51

When I’m in my wholeness my clients are showing up fully courageous and feeling safe and secure to experiment and grow and and they make mistakes, they can learn. Everybody wins.


Misty Williams  1:00:03

When you step up like that you give people permission to also step up. Yeah, there’s that Marianne Williamson quote, right? 


Deborah Fryer  1:00:08

We gain nothing by dimming our light. And none of us needs to be spreading more negativity and fear in the world. 


Deborah Fryer  1:00:14

Shine your light, turn it up, be an uplifter be an encourager, for yourself, and for another and not at the expense of another, right? 


Deborah Fryer  1:00:24

You can’t walk around saying, Well, I don’t I kind of lift you, but not me. No, I’m gonna lift me and I’m gonna uplift you. 


Misty Williams  1:00:30

That’s right. Roderick told me maybe six months after we started dating, that, that after that conversation that he knew he would move to Austin. He kind of made a decision in that moment. 


Misty Williams  1:00:43

And he said, misty, if you hadn’t been so clear about what we needed to do, because he was a he was a yes, he was like, Okay!, well, that’s what she wants, he felt actually inspired about the opportunity to participate in the creation of that with another person. 


Misty Williams  1:00:59

He said, I never would have made sure to call you every day. And I never would have prioritized us seeing each other as much as we did. I called forth something in him. That was a yes. 


Misty Williams  1:01:16

And the way our whole relationship unfolded was just so magical. But it really started with my own courage to create this with a person and kind of making a stand putting a stake down saying, This is what I’m committed to. 


Misty Williams  1:01:36

And this is what I would like to create, is this, what you would like to create, and then getting clear on that, I think about how different my life could have been, if I would have had the courage to do that 10 or 20 years ago, the pain and the stress, the overwhelming loneliness, and I am alone. 


Misty Williams  1:01:57

And I don’t know what I’m doing all of this for and the burnout that I would experience so often in my life, because I was committed to being invisible to myself. 


Deborah Fryer  1:02:12

And it’s an unbelievable gift to be visible. I don’t go to Roderick, I don’t go to anybody and demand, hey, you have to, 


Deborah Fryer  1:02:23

I go with a, this is what I would like to create, what do you think about this, and that language of creation actually permeates our entire relationship. 


Deborah Fryer  1:02:33

And Roderick tells me all the time, I didn’t even know it was possible to create with someone and he, I didn’t really even know that was a thing before we met by here’s, 


Deborah Fryer  1:02:44

I think I would like to create this and we’re able to be a lot more present and really in the light, with with what’s true and real for us. 


Deborah Fryer  1:02:57

The creating that does take some courage and some skill, so that you can count on the people in your life, and you can see the people in your life supporting you, it’s really, really possible to change the tide on that.


Deborah Fryer  1:03:13

And it also requires that you count on you, and that you trust you. Yes, right, I need to count on me, I need to trust me. So that if you have a different opinion, 


Deborah Fryer  1:03:24

I’m still unwavering. Because I count on myself, I know for sure that my knowing is valuable, my contributions valuable. 


Deborah Fryer  1:03:32

And I know for sure that yours is too and we might not be wanting, we might not be finding enjoyment in the same things. 


Deborah Fryer  1:03:41

I think about my relationship with my husband, I did a similar thing when we were dating, where I just said, this is what I need. 


Deborah Fryer  1:03:49

This is what I need. And if that doesn’t feel comfortable for you, then we’ll part ways then you’re not my person. 


Deborah Fryer  1:03:56

And this is what I need. And within 24 hours, he made a commitment, and he needed me to say this is what I needed. And I actually created safety for him. Right now he’s very


Misty Williams  1:04:07

talk more about that. Because I think that’s a foreign. I think people think if I state what I need, that I’m being selfish, if I state what I need, 


Misty Williams  1:04:16

Then the other person is going to lose if I state what I need you to we just have so many stories around that. I think that would be something really great for you to unpack a little bit.


Deborah Fryer  1:04:25

I hear that a lot in people wanting to be able to be in relationships, and they also are afraid that I’m going to lose my freedom. 


Deborah Fryer  1:04:26

Yeah, I think of I think of the safety that I feel when people are really direct and honest. It makes me feel I can trust them. 


Deborah Fryer  1:04:31

And what I was actually really clear about with my husband, on our very first date, we also met through online dating. 


Deborah Fryer  1:04:40

It wasn’t Bumble, it was a different app. But we met and we sat down for brunch and we sat on that very first date. What are yellow flags about you? 


Deborah Fryer  1:04:48

What are things about you that if I knew it, I might want to run the other way. We were totally transparent from the beginning. 


Deborah Fryer  1:04:57

And the other question was, what’s something that you need to know about me that is a non negotiable? And what I said that he needed to know about me 


Misty Williams  1:05:10

that was good questions. 


Deborah Fryer  1:05:12

Yeah. I said, I need you to know that I am really devoted to my meditation practice. I dated a guy like you on and off for 10 years. 


Deborah Fryer  1:05:24

I feel like somehow funny that we’re together. But I did it. And I’m not for 10 years. And the straw that really terminated our relationship was we went to India together. 


Deborah Fryer  1:05:34

And I got up and I meditated every morning. And he said, What’s wrong with you? Why do you need to meditate? And I was just, there was I couldn’t say it. 


Deborah Fryer  1:06:01

Why you have to breathe air? Why do you have to create internal spaciousness? Why do I have a need to remind myself of the truth of who I am, which is unconditionally made of love and space and kindness and compassion. 


Deborah Fryer  1:06:06

It’s as important as the I mean, it is the air I breathe. And so when I met lon, I said, I need you to know that I meditate every day. And if that is going to be threatening to you, this will not work. 


Deborah Fryer  1:07:02

And it seems like a really simple thing for me to say, my meditation practice is important to me, sometimes, it’s 20 minutes. And I need that. And he respects that, and he’s not threatened. 


Deborah Fryer  1:07:02

But he’d like it. Now. He knows how powerful it is. Because Meditation allows me to manifest 510 honor $1,000 like that. And that might sound crazy. 


Deborah Fryer  1:07:02

It’s not crazy, when you know how to really channel the power that you are. And now he jokes with me, he’s like, we need new windows, can you come up with $7,000 on it, he’s totally, he’s on board with it. He does martial arts. 


Deborah Fryer  1:07:05

And so he’s always he’s more like Bruce Lee, who was an incredibly spiritual guy, but he was fighting, and so my husband, he really loves his martial art, and he comes home, and he talks about fighting and attacking. 


Deborah Fryer  1:07:13

And there’s a part of me that just really, I have to work honestly, to really unconditionally love the part of him that loves fighting. And this is part of my shadow. 


Deborah Fryer  1:07:25

Because the part of me that just loves the softness, and the sweetness and if there’s nothing attacking in meditation, it’s just like ecstasy. And so we’re a beautiful polarity for each other. 


Deborah Fryer  1:07:41

And it sounds like you and your partner also have beautiful polarity for each other. And that creates such freedom for both of you. He goes off and he does the martial art that he loves to do. 


Deborah Fryer  1:07:55

And I go off and I do the yoga retreats and the meditation retreats that I love to do. And we both support each other doing the things that internally create the freedom for ourselves. 


Deborah Fryer  1:08:05

Why do you think that? The directness, created safety? I think the directness creates safety, because the directness is setting a boundary, 


Deborah Fryer  1:08:18

it is saying this, I will not tolerate, or this I will tolerate, and we receive what we tolerate, people who are, I used to operate as a starving artist. 


Deborah Fryer  1:08:29

And because that’s what I was willing to tolerate, I was willing to tolerate an identity of somebody who didn’t earn money. And I’m no longer willing to tolerate that as an identity. 


Deborah Fryer  1:08:39

I was willing to tolerate, oh, you can come and go, you don’t have to make a commitment to me. I was not willing to tolerate that with my husband. 


Deborah Fryer  1:08:46

It was no, I want to be with you. I’m very clear. I want to be with you. I want to have a life with you. I want to grow old with you. I am very clear about that. And if you are not clear about that, you’re not my person.


Deborah Fryer  1:08:59

Yes, feel I can trust our exchange I can trust what we might create together in this moment is a small creation and B creation, a long term creation, a short creation. 


Deborah Fryer  1:09:19

I think I think the the trust is so important, and the trust is what really helps you to relax into that safety that you


Deborah Fryer  1:09:29

just grabbed. And that’s true with our teams. It’s true with our family members. It’s true with our bodies. We can trust that our bodies are doing exactly what they need to do. Our bodies are here in support of us. It really contributes so much to our healing.


Deborah Fryer  1:09:47

Would you say to the person who who is in relationships where they themselves don’t feel safe, they don’t feel they can count on the other person. 


Misty Williams  1:10:00

Listen, but they feel this relationship is too important to let go. I have to make this work somehow. How does someone in that situation, navigate what we’re describing?


Deborah Fryer  1:10:15

Well, families of origin are good examples of that. And I think there are a couple of practices that can be very helpful in this. One is the practice of gratitude. 


Deborah Fryer  1:10:26

Really looking for what do I appreciate about this person? Just like I shared earlier, that I didn’t realize that love was coming my way. Because I thought my sister was getting it all I thought there was no enough love for both of us. 


Deborah Fryer  1:10:40

And we really need to widen our lens and see what is it that I really appreciate about this person. And practice gratitude. Really say to that person, I thank you for XYZ, thank you for XYZ, 


Deborah Fryer  1:10:55

I really appreciate that you XYZ that will go miles toward softening the resentment. The second thing that I think is really important, is for you to ask yourself, just like you did with your partner, when you realize why I really need more support around XYZ things around the house. 


Deborah Fryer  1:11:12

Well, what did you really want, what you really wanted, underneath, I want somebody to do the dishes or somebody to go shopping or somebody to do my laundry, what I really want is time to connect with my partner, 


Deborah Fryer  1:11:24

what I really want is time for me to not have to be doing just to be in pure presence with myself. What I really want is more spaciousness in my day, how can you go about creating that directly? 


Deborah Fryer  1:11:40

What can you do directly so that you create space in your day. And meditation is a beautiful way, even five conscious breaths to slow everything down. 


Deborah Fryer  1:11:53

I also recommend different mind body tools, tapping and breath work, to retrain the nervous system, that spaciousness is your birthright, or more space than your matter where 99.99999% space. 


Deborah Fryer  1:12:11

And yet, we fail to recognize that it’s present right now, most of this room, is space, but you’re probably focusing on me or you’re focusing on misty and you’re not recognizing the space that is here. 


Deborah Fryer  1:12:26

And widening our lens so that we’re seeing what is present right now will go a long way, in helping you not need to react to the other person that you’re with, not need to fix them, you might be operating from a place of what’s wrong with them. 


Deborah Fryer  1:12:48

And the third thing that I want to suggest is a worksheet that is freely available. It’s The Work of Byron Katie, and it’s called judge your neighbor. And it’s a beautiful mirror for you to look into. 


Deborah Fryer  1:13:01

When you see oh, they’re not listening to me. Oh, I’m not listening to their or their attention to me. I’m not paying attention to me. 


Deborah Fryer  1:13:10

They’re ignoring me, ignoring, et cetera. It’s such an eye opening way for you to see what you need. And how can you meet your needs directly right now, without needing them to do anything?


Misty Williams  1:13:24

Yeah, I love the work so much. I’m so glad you mentioned it. So I had an experience with the work when I was around 35 I think I grew up with a really challenging relationship with my father. 


Misty Williams  1:13:39

The story was that my mom was carrying everything at home my dad didn’t support her. My father had I mean, his wounding from childhood is is real and He compensates with like a lot of ego and bravado and he’s very like the southern patriarchal male stereotype. 


Misty Williams  1:14:03

What a lot of people would call toxic masculinity. When I was younger, I saw my dad exhibit a lot of those behaviors. And my mom very often felt she was alone in taking care of everything at home. Right. 


Misty Williams  1:14:15

So my relationship with my dad was really tainted by me taking up the offense and the caretaking for my my mom. Right. I remember actually having an experience in my 30s where I just had to come to Jesus with myself about my frustration against my dad, 


Misty Williams  1:14:31

I’m like, you’re upset with him for not being a certain way in his marriage to my mom, right? Except she’s not upset about it. 


Misty Williams  1:14:40

I mean, she’s upset but she’s choosing it. She’s chosen to be with him all these years, and she’s not leaving and she’s choosing to see the silver lining and to see the bright side and all of that, and I’m carrying around this anger and resentment and whatever. 


Misty Williams  1:14:56

And I committed that I was going to start letting go and there was one time I was home with my family and my dad was just being so controlling, I just felt he was trying to manipulate and control and use a lot of force and anger. 


Misty Williams  1:15:14

He uses his anger to control. And it was I was just livid about it. And I came home and I was so wound up about this that I did the judge your neighbor worksheet, 


Misty Williams  1:15:24

and did all the different turnarounds in there and of course, the turnarounds where I’m trying to control my, my dad is trying to control me, I’m trying to control my dad, is that true? Well,


Deborah Fryer  1:15:37

right. If you weren’t angry, I wouldn’t be upset if it’s his fault that I’m upset. 


Misty Williams  1:15:41

Yeah! and then the turnaround was my dad has not tried to control me, is that true? And I thought about that. 


Misty Williams  1:15:47

And I was like, well, I could see where that’s true, too. And it was just a real part. I could feel, I can’t even I was so I mean, we’re talking a lifetime of anger and resentment that I had juiced and juice and juice and juice and juice. 


Misty Williams  1:16:03

So by the time I actually sat down to do this, and I’m reliving a whole lifetime of stories that I’ve told myself about what this is, and just doing that worksheet, it started just dissolving everything. 


Misty Williams  1:16:18

And there was a part of me that didn’t want to wait, I need to, I’m justified, right? angry, angry about.


Deborah Fryer  1:16:26

But I just went with the process. And I got to the end. And it was like, I just saw the humanity. Of all of it. I saw the stories of all of it, 


Misty Williams  1:16:40

I saw where I was getting stuck in a belief that I was trying, I was trying to make a sliver of truth be the whole truth. And my relationship with my dad has been different ever since 


Misty Williams  1:16:53

I’m 46. Now, so this was a decade ago. One time doing the judge your neighbor worksheet now doesn’t mean it’s perfect. It’s perfect relationship. 


Misty Williams  1:17:01

But I am not carrying the charge of all those years of stories I told myself about the situation, I’ve been liberated. And it’s wonderful not to carry that around. 


Misty Williams  1:17:16

And I’m so glad I think if are you familiar enough with the worksheet to kind of walk people through what’s in that worksheet, I would love it.


Deborah Fryer  1:17:25

So the worksheet starts and if there’s something that you’re feeling triggered about right now, go ahead and bring it to your mind. And you just want to start I am really fill in the blank with so and so. 


Deborah Fryer  1:17:35

So I’m really pissed off with so and so I’m really frustrated with so and so I’m really angry with so and so. 


Deborah Fryer  1:17:41

I’m really mad at so and so I’m really disappointed with so and so something like that you want to fill in the blank with I am feeling blank with so and so. 


Deborah Fryer  1:17:50

And then you’re going to turn it around Oh, actually that. So then the next thing is, what do you want? So what I really want? Should we have a concrete example, let’s come up with a concrete example. 


Deborah Fryer  1:18:02

I’m really mad with my husband for not doing his dishes. That might not be something that really triggers you. 


Deborah Fryer  1:18:12

Or it might be something that you’re just, read your blog actively. Yeah, right. I see it. And I just crack up about it. 


Deborah Fryer  1:18:19

I think it’s hilarious. I make little videos, that I’m Inspector Deborah, and I’m finding a coffee cup here. And I’m finding a plate over here. And I just told me to make fun of him and make fun of him that he’s like a teenager. 


Deborah Fryer  1:18:29

And he does all the laundry. So I’m not mad about it. But I can totally see that a former version of me might feel really put upon how can we be leaving it for me you’re leaving it for me to clean up so I’m really pissed off with so and so because they don’t do their dishes and I have to take responsibility. 


Deborah Fryer  1:18:46

I’m really pissed off with so and so because they lied to me. And then the second part is, well, what I really want, what I really want is I really want lon to put his dishes in the dishwasher himself. 


Deborah Fryer  1:18:56

I really want Elon to totally laughing at myself because I leave piles of clothes everywhere on the floor. So clearly this is about me, right? But I’m not triggered by it. 


Deborah Fryer  1:19:05

So it’s not a very good example. But so part one is I am emotion with another person, we want to start blaming them. Part two is what I really want. I want them to do XYZ so that I can feel okay, that you can see why this is so disempowering, 


Deborah Fryer  1:19:20

because I want them to do X, Y and Z so that they can feel okay, but I don’t control them, which means I’m going to have to wait for them to do XYZ for me to feel okay. And if they never do it, I’m never going to feel okay. 


Deborah Fryer  1:19:31

Then we got to see that we got to see how we’ve totally given our power to them to control our emotion. That’s part two. Part three is I get to be spiritually self righteous. Because I know everything.


Deborah Fryer  1:19:46

I’m the one is controlling everything. Right part three is here’s what you should be doing. I’m gonna tell you you’re wrong. I’m right. And I’m doing this kind of tongue in cheek because I live in breathe this work. 


Deborah Fryer  1:19:57

This is what I do with my clients to help them heal. all their money stories, they can go on and make six and seven figure businesses that are sustainable and soul aligned and good for the planet and good for you and your families, and stop being so afraid of your power and worth your value. 


Deborah Fryer  1:20:11

So I hope that you’ll receive this with with a big grain of salt, because when we’re in it, we feel so vulnerable, we identify with the feeling. 


Deborah Fryer  1:20:23

And we’ve got to, we’ve got a pay serious attention to what feels so justified, or anger feels so justified, or betrayal or disappointment or rage, feel so justified, and you really want to give it time and space that it’s requesting. 


Deborah Fryer  1:20:44

Okay, so part three, I get to put on my self righteous hat and say, here’s what you should be doing. Let me give you some advice about everything you’re doing that’s wrong. 


Deborah Fryer  1:20:54

Now, we know that pisses people off when they do it to us, we don’t realize we’re doing it. So this is a really great part of the exercise. Because we get to recognize, here’s me telling you, we should be doing, you shouldn’t be doing this, you should be doing that. 


Deborah Fryer  1:21:09

We love to do that. And it’s really annoying to be on the receiving end. And then part four, in order for me to be happy, here’s what I need you to do. Here’s what I need you to think, here’s what I need to say. 


Deborah Fryer  1:21:24

So you mentioned that you realized that you were trying to control your Dad, this is the part of the exercise, where you realize, oh, that’s me trying to control them. 


Deborah Fryer  1:21:34

So in order for me to be happy, I need you to think something, I need you to say something I need you behave a particular way. If you act and think and feel and behave and believe in accordance with me. 


Deborah Fryer  1:21:46

I’ll be good. Right? It’s if I get to control you, I’ll be good. If you control me, I’m bad. If I control you, I’m good. 


Deborah Fryer  1:21:55

This is making you cringe. This is why I love this exercise. I don’t mean you missed me. And listeners, this is why I love this exercise so much. 


Deborah Fryer  1:22:01

Because it just dissolves all of our stuff that. There’s a really powerful part of doing it, where you actually write down, you judge harshly. 


Deborah Fryer  1:22:12

And this is what I want, and this is what you should do and all the things and then you go back and you start reviewing and you say, Is it true?


Deborah Fryer  1:22:19

Is it true? Yes, sir.


Deborah Fryer  1:22:21

How do I know that it’s true? And you evaluate every single one. Is it true? How do I know? How can I be sure that it’s true? And that that really is what starts the deconstruction process, I think to really, is it? Is it true?


Deborah Fryer  1:22:38

And how do I react when I believe it’s true? And that’s right. How do I react when I think you’re controlling me? How do I react when I think you’re lying to me? Yes. 


Deborah Fryer  1:22:48

And what happens when I believe that thought? And who would I be without my anger? Who would I be if you weren’t lying to me? Who would I be? If I could count on you? Right? 


Deborah Fryer  1:23:00

I’m gonna have to lose the identity that I can’t count on anybody if I could count on you. Yeah. And then we turn it around. And this is even next level of clarity. 


Deborah Fryer  1:23:09

When we realize, oh, it’s not that he did this to me. It’s me doing this to him. I’m leaving my piles of mail and piles of clothes everywhere. And he’s not complaining. 


Deborah Fryer  1:23:27

But I’m complaining what he does that I’m seeing my own self in it. He’s trying to control me, oh, I’m trying to control him. And so we turn the thought around. 


Deborah Fryer  1:23:37

So if A then B, we turn it around, is B that day? And if not B then not a and and we look at it from every angle. So why don’t


Misty Williams  1:23:47

you walk through with your opening your opening belief and and actually reward all the turnarounds so people can see what it’s like.


Deborah Fryer  1:23:55

So let’s say my opening belief is I’m angry with my husband, because he never does the dishes. So first turned around, I’m angry with myself for not doing the dishes. 


Deborah Fryer  1:24:07

I never do the dishes. He did do the dishes. My husband does the dishes 90% of the time. But I’m not angry with him anyway. But if I were lucky to have to recognize he does do dishes. 


Deborah Fryer  1:24:24

And he’s not angry with my husband, right? I’m not a doctor, my husband, and my husband isn’t intentionally trying to piss me off. Right? We just look at it from every possible person. 


Deborah Fryer  1:24:35

My husband is angry at me for not doing the dishes, right? My husband is angry at me for not doing my homework is angry at me for not doing the dishes that I’m angry at me. My husband’s not angry with me for not doing the dishes. 


Deborah Fryer  1:24:49

We need to see all of them so that we can see wow, what’s true. What’s really true and how do I really know it’s true, right and then What do I want to do with that? 


Deborah Fryer  1:25:02

What I realize, I love what you said about, I’m taking a sliver of the truth for the cultures. And I think that creates a lot of stress for us.


Misty Williams  1:25:14

Oh, yeah. And the ego juices and juices and juices when we just feel that self righteous. And we all feel it there’s a part of me that, I’ll catch myself cycling. 


Misty Williams  1:25:25

And I’ll just watch and I just let myself just juice the heck out of it in my head, whatever, will out become that observer, just kind of watch it, burn it out. 


Misty Williams  1:25:34

And then All right, now we need to do the work on this. I’m not always ready in the moment to do the work on it. And that’s okay, too, right. But just I think so much of this is just noticing.


Misty Williams  1:25:47

Just noticing, 


Deborah Fryer  1:25:51

I think there’s something also about how we manage our energy. And this has everything to do with burnout. So I’ve noticed that I have a pattern of I’m mostly Chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill, chill. 


Deborah Fryer  1:26:05

And then right before I do a big enrollment event, my energy just gets laser. I’m really going at it for about two weeks, a quarter, or I’m really, really, really burning the candle. 


Deborah Fryer  1:26:20

And I might be working 1012 hours a day, seven days a week, for two weeks, a quarter. And most of the time, I’m just like this. And I realized that there’s something in chemistry that’s called a catalyst.


Deborah Fryer  1:26:33

It’s a flashpoint where something will be like this, and then it gets to the next level. And we need to put that energetic engine underneath of us. 


Deborah Fryer  1:26:42

And some people need to generate internally, some angst and drama, we need to put the squeeze on ourselves internally, like you probably are right now, because you’re in the middle of a summit. 


Deborah Fryer  1:26:54

So you’ve got a lot of interviews to do right now. And you’ve got a lot of moving parts. So you’ve got to be really, really structured for a finite amount of time, so that you can get to the next level. 


Deborah Fryer  1:27:05

So you can, deliver this to all of your listeners. But you’re mostly going to be operating at a at a very relaxed pace. And when we can recognize this about our business is really to loop back to what we started. 


Deborah Fryer  1:27:17

And what I learned about the heart is that the heart is quite consistent. And when we’re running, the heart is going to go faster, and then we’re going to recover. 


Deborah Fryer  1:27:28

And we need to build recovery in to our businesses, we need to build recovery in to our relationships, we need to build recovery into every day. 


Deborah Fryer  1:27:38

And recovery is synonymous with rest, we need to create spaciousness in each day, in the relationship in the business and family in the body. So that we’re ready to fill again,


Deborah Fryer  1:27:53

I think there’s this pressure in our culture to grind, go, Wait, there’s it’s a badge of honor to be busy to have a packed schedule. 


Misty Williams  1:28:05

As parents, we want to provide every experience under the sun with our kids, and we just pack it all in and it’s the Go, go, go go go go go all the time. 


Misty Williams  1:28:13

And there’s not so much value in the spaciousness of recovery in the spaciousness of being and not doing and, and there’s the pressure to care what other people think about how we’re spending our time and what we’re making a priority in our life. 


Misty Williams  1:28:32

And there’s this thing we do where we show up a certain way, because we want people to think certain things about us. And there’s just, there’s noise, there’s an unbelievable amount of noise and not a valuing of spaciousness and rest. 


Misty Williams  1:28:52

And this is a big reason why we are so unbelievably stressed out. And it’s why it can be so hard for us to heal, we follow the protocols, and we take the supplements, but we’re not sleeping enough at night. 


Misty Williams  1:29:05

And we’re not giving ourselves time in the day to rest and recover. And we’re not dedicated to a mindfulness practice that has us slow down because externally these things aren’t valued. And I would love as we’re wrapping things up here, which sucks. 


Misty Williams  1:29:23

We’d love for you to share a little bit about the value of that spaciousness and what we’re doing especially as women but men too. 


Misty Williams  1:29:32

I mean, look at Roderick is so much better about I need to rest and recover and I think that that men have a lot easier time of veggie on the couch at the end of the day or going out with the guys and relaxing. 


Misty Williams  1:29:46

And women just feel pressure to go go go and it’s not as permissible for us but this is this problem right here I think is so epidemic. And I would love for you just to address that here as we wrap things up.


Deborah Fryer  1:30:02

One of the things that became so clear to me and non negotiable to me in my business was the requirement to rest, holding the heart in my hands and seeing that the heart rests, and then it press and then it rests, let it is a biological imperative for us to rest. 


Deborah Fryer  1:30:27

And if we don’t honor that, we create tremendous dis ease in the body. There are two kinds of stress there is you stress, which is good stress, you stress, that’s the kind of stress of I’m ski moguls, I’m running a marathon. 


Deborah Fryer  1:30:44

I’m excited about a trip I’m going to take, right there’s, It’s an adrenaline, but the story that we wrap around it is unexcited about it. And then there’s something that we call distress, which is we feel put upon, it feels heavy, we feel anxious, and we really shut down and neurologically, it stops us from being our most compassionate, loving, creative selves, 


Deborah Fryer  1:31:10

it is really a detriment to our health, when we’re experiencing distress, we actually down regulate the immune receptors in ourselves, which leave us more open to inflammation and potentially to dis ease that will become disease. 


Deborah Fryer  1:31:26

And so it has real physical consequences. Food can create a lot of stress in the body. And it can create new stress and it can create distress. And thoughts also can create good stress you stress or distress. 


Deborah Fryer  1:31:44

And we now know from epigenetics that our thoughts create just as much chemically in our systems as food and supplements. 


Deborah Fryer  1:31:51

So it’s really critically important that we manage our thoughts and that we, that we manage the thoughts that are happening at the subconscious and unconscious level. 


Deborah Fryer  1:32:01

Thoughts that say, I’m not allowed to relax, right? If you’re sitting on the couch, but the whole time you’re sitting on the couch, you’re feeling super anxious, you’re not actually relaxing. 


Deborah Fryer  1:32:12

And you’ve got to become aware of what you’re not allowing yourself to experience. You’ve got to really become such a good observer of you. If you’re sitting on the couch. 


Deborah Fryer  1:32:25

I have been practicing this for several years, and I’m getting better and better at it. 


Deborah Fryer  1:32:30

But I used to sit on the couch, as if I were resting. And I was so anxious, I felt so good. So guilty, sitting on the couch, I felt so guilty on the weekend, because I’m not emailing, I’m not doing more.


Deborah Fryer  1:32:45

And I would watch myself trying to rest. It was actually hard for me to rest, even though that’s what I most craved. 


Deborah Fryer  1:32:56

And it’s something that we’ve got to train ourselves to strengthen in the same way that we’ve trained ourselves to strengthen the ability to push hard and do more. 


Deborah Fryer  1:33:08

We don’t need to push that pedal on the gas, we do need to get used to what does it feel like to really take the foot off the gas, and really let the body repair. Really let the mind rest. 


Deborah Fryer  1:33:23

And it’s not something that is that has been promoted in the culture of the last 400 years, you mentioned tossed toxic masculinity and we’ve been talking about the patriarchy. 


Deborah Fryer  1:33:36

And the patriarchal culture is you’re supposed to go a little bit ago, and anything material, the jet or the nice car or the penthouse or whatever material thing of success is the badge that you are someone. 


Deborah Fryer  1:33:50

And we’re really entering a new level of consciousness in which we recognize that it’s not the thing. It’s the experience.


Deborah Fryer  1:33:59

And so I love that you’re bringing this message to millions of people mistake, this message that rest is part of the cycle of growth. 


Deborah Fryer  1:34:10

If you’re doing random and if you walk around the woods, you walk around with a tenant garden, where you go diving, he’ll notice the flowers open in the light, and they close, when the sun goes down. 


Deborah Fryer  1:34:23

And when you start operating your business according to the rhythms of nature, you’re not going to be productive 24/7 You’re not even going to be productive every day of the year, you’re going to spend massive amounts of your time resting, and truly when we’re in rest. When we’re in a state of receptivity. 


Deborah Fryer  1:34:46

That’s when the inspiration comes. That’s when the massive life changing ideas come that’s when the visions come. That’s when the co creative, crazy ideas come. 


Deborah Fryer  1:34:57

It’s not when we’re in front of our computers doing that It’s when we’re in a place of there’s actually part of your brain. It’s called the dmn. It’s called the default mode network. And 


Deborah Fryer  1:35:07

I’ve heard an acronym that it’s do more nothing. And when we’re in do more nothing, we allow ourselves to be more. 


Deborah Fryer  1:35:17

And to be more no thing. I have not my accomplishments. I’m so much more than my accomplishments. 


Deborah Fryer  1:35:28

I’m not my fancy car. I’m so much more than that. I’m not my private jet. I’m so much more than that. When we stop identifying as a thing. And we allow ourselves just the expansive spaciousness of presence of creativity of love. Everything will shift.


Deborah Fryer  1:35:49

This has been a really powerful conversation I have had chills so many times. As we’ve been talking, just feeling the just unbelievable truth and what I what I hope for people is some some freedom and hope it’s one thing to talk about these concepts. 


Misty Williams  1:36:06

It’s another thing to practically share stories and describe strategies for helping you put this into practice. And I hope everyone who’s listening or watching today really got a lot out of this. 


Misty Williams  1:36:16

It’s given you guys, things to think about, contemplate stuff that you might want to start integrating into your own life. So thank you so much, Deborah, this is fabulous. If people want to learn more about you and your work, where can they find you online?


Deborah Fryer  1:36:30

I am quite visible online. You can find me at Deborah friar.com. I’d also invite you to join the anatomy of money Academy. 


Deborah Fryer  1:36:37

It’s a free Facebook group where we talk mindset, mindset, mindset, nervous system, nervous system, nervous system all day long, so that you can create and live and thrive in the way that your soul intends and desires.


Deborah Fryer  1:36:49

Awesome. All right, well, I’ve loved this. This has been really powerful. I hope you guys have all gotten a lot out of it too. And we will see you soon. Bye for now. 


Misty Williams  1:36:57

That’s it for this week’s episode. Thank you for listening. I hope you’re feeling more empowered to overcome your flabby, foggy and fatigue and to reclaim your life. 


Misty Williams  1:37:05

If you haven’t subscribed yet, don’t forget to hit that subscribe button right now so you don’t miss any of our episodes. We have some awesome shows coming right up. I love reading your reviews and comments too. 


Misty Williams  1:37:15

They inspire me and encourage other Rosie’s to hang out with us and learn all these amazing strategies for healing and living our best lives. Till next time sister. Bye


About Misty Williams
& Healing Rosie

Misty Williams spent years struggling to reclaim her health and vitality after surgery to remove an ovarian cyst, life-threatening complications and an endometriosis diagnosis sent her into a brain fog and fatigue tailspin.
Her doctor told her that the only remedies for her issues were drugs and surgeries, that her labs were “normal” and she could “google” to learn more about what was happening to her body.
At 35 years old, Misty embarked on the fight for her quality of life, enduring many more challenges on her road to healing, including an unexplained 45-lb weight gain, debilitating brain fog, fatigue, hypothyroidism, and premature ovarian failure.

She founded HealingRosie.com to provide high-performing women with the resources an community to successfully confront the unexpected chronic health issues that women often experienced as they age.

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