Healing Rosie

Kasia Kines Interview

Ask Me Anything with Dr. Kasia Kines

Misty: (00:01)

Hey everybody. We are ready. I’m here with Kasia, which is exciting. I know that you guys have a gazillion questions for her, and I just want to order a frame for this Ask Me Anything, because you guys know that I personally have Epstein Barr, and what that looked like for me, I actually think that Epstein Barr was the linchpin in all of my issues. I did a lot of things to make adjustments to my diet, to my environment, and all of those things, they matter, they’re important. You have to do them, but for me until I really got into the protocol that I personally did, and began eradicating Epstein Barr, I was only going to see limited success, because this virus has likely been in my system for 30 years plus, I’m 43, and has really taken a toll. And my immune system was very suppressed.

Misty: (01:07)

I have noticed a fabulous increase in energy, which is just fantastic. I noticed that even on nights when I don’t get enough sleep, I try to be in bed around 10, and definitely go for eight or nine hours of sleep a night, but even on nights when I get six or seven hours, I’m okay the next day. I’m not waking up the next day feeling completely like I did not get all my sleep. That’s really nice, because even though I practice getting good sleep, life happens sometimes. It’s really beautiful to not feel like my entire life has been completely derailed because I missed one or two hours of sleep or I got to bed too late. I just can’t say enough about how important I think it is for every woman to get tested, over 90% of us have it.

Misty: (01:56)

I also want to say one other thing about this. A lot of women I think feel guilt that they had Epstein Barr didn’t get it treated, have a child and now their child has Epstein Barr. I just want to say that 90% of the population has it. This is chronic everywhere, and I think as a woman you should cut yourself some slack, give yourself a break, because 90% of the population has it. The chances of them getting it, even if you hadn’t passed it to your child are super, super high. Let’s take a really proactive approach to this, and let’s talk about what we need to do to eradicate it, lower or get rid completely of this virus. I’m so excited for this Ask Me Anything. It’s going to be great. I get to hijack the first question. It’s not even on the [inaudible 00:02:43]. What I would like to know, is do you believe it’s possible to completely get rid of this virus or are we simply in management mode of this virus for the rest of our lives.

Doctor Kasia: (02:58)

Okay, great question. I see that people are greatly attached to the numbers of their antibodies and I see that all the time. I’m freaking out, and I’m doing this and this, and my numbers are not budging and so on so forth, so what does that mean? Does it mean the virus is still there? The thing is once you have the virus, I think it’s a terrain issue, it’s a makeup. We are hosts. We like to kill things. Go and wipe them out, that’s what antibiotics do, right, and it’s not always a pretty picture. I would say, with what I’ve seen the healing from it is possible, and I don’t like the word management, because management means that you have a disease and just manage it. It doesn’t work this way. You can completely heal it. Should I read that note that I just go from my graduate? I think I share it with you, because it just warmed my heart, this is what you want to see.

Doctor Kasia: (04:09)

I’m sending it to you. So one of my chronic EBV cases came me some miracle news. Thyroid nodules and inflammation completely resolved. Her doc had to take her glasses off, she couldn’t believe the ultrasound results. We’re not even looking at the antibodies here to EBV, we’re actually looking at thyroid presentation. If that person were to look at the antibodies, and they were still elevated or some of them, what would they think? Would have slipped and think I still have EBV, I’m sick? Because the point is that EBV stays with us until we die just like other bacteria, fungi that we have we are hosts, but the point is that you can live your life completely fully without any symptoms, without any flair ups, eat what you want, live the way you want and just pay attention. My goal is to create an environment where in future EBV will be just like a cold, people will know what to do. It’s not a big deal.

Doctor Kasia: (05:19)

And this is what I see with my patients when they’re recovering, you know. When there’s no complications, it’s just being drived, everything has been driven by EBV, it’s not a big deal. If there is a sniffle, they get on it. One day they’re back on and nothing ever comes to anything so you’re basically preventing replication, preventing any further damage. You can support the infected cells with some nutrients.

Doctor Kasia: (05:47)

So it’s a gray area, and I can’t make claims that you’re curing, but the flaggen make claims, and I actually put her study in there, there’s a link in our thread. But the beautiful thing is that it is possible to just look at it like I have a small sinus infection I know what to do. I have a little sore throat. Just like with sore throat you can take some aloe vera and antimicrobial and suddenly there’s no problem. That’s what we want. We want to get this message so people go it is a big deal, but when you understand how it works and how predictable it is, like in your case you’re no longer scared, it’s not an unknown and you know what to do with it. It’s just like that.

Doctor Kasia: (06:35)

So you shrink its power over you. It’s just one aspect of your life. So you know if you go outside and the forest is burning now you know that diepson been reactivated, so you’re going to have a mask on you and stay at home, and you won’t get sick.

Misty: (06:51)

Yeah, so one of the things I like in this too is the whole yeast conversation, because we talk a lot about yeast overgrowth, and people have issues with yeast overgrowth. The goal is to get rid of the overgrowth part, but we’re not going to get rid of yeast entirely, nor should we. What’s inside of our bodies is an ecosystem in there.

Doctor Kasia: (07:09)

Yes, it’s a terrain.

Misty: (07:11)

I can’t speak to this, because I don’t remember the specifics, but in my talk with Ryan Preisinger, which you can purchase the summit it was one of the [inaudible 00:07:18] and Ryan is amazing, he actually talks about briefly the role that EBV actually plays in the ecosystem as positive. I don’t remember it, I wish I did. Maybe I’ll go back and listen to the talk and come back and put a comment on this thread, but I encourage everyone to listen to that talk if you want to understand this better. I see that with a lot of issues not just with this Epstein Barr issues, but with a lot of issues there’s this part of us that wants to completely get rid of it.

Misty: (07:49)

I even see with thyroid, I want to get to the point where I’m off thyroid meds, I want to get to the point where I’m off hormones. Maybe you will. Maybe you’ll get to the point if you need that support where you won’t have it. I certainly aspire to that one day, but am I going to feel like in my health journey I am not as successful if I have to stay on thyroid meds my whole life? Absolutely not. The win for me is being symptom free. The win for me is I’m not flabby, foggy, and fatigued.

Misty: (08:16)

If I have a great quality of life, if I feel energetic and big and strong, and I’m able to create the life that I want and show up for the things that matter in my life, if I’m able to apply myself in my career and achieve the level of success I want, I’m able to create fabulous relationships and be there for my family, and contribute, then I’m winning. And that’s really what I want us all to focus on as a community. Not getting so in the weeds about health goals that aren’t really health goals. Having all of your numbers at zero for EBV really is not a health goal. A health goal is how you’re feeling and what your symptoms are like.

Misty: (08:54)

I’m just offering that as a reframe to you, so that you can navigate this journey in a way that you’re going to truly achieve the success that you want, because what if you got all your numbers to zero in EBV and you still felt like shit? Are you winning? Is that the outcome that you really wanted to create?

Misty: (09:09)

Okay, let’s get onto the questions, because we have a lot of questions-

Doctor Kasia: (09:13)

Let me just address what you said. I love what you said, I agree completely, I love when you said show up for things that matter in your life. The thing that matters the most is, I’m speaking to the ladies now, look me in the eye, you matter and you’re worth it, and you’re good enough. That’s often at the bottom of trying to control and get the numbers and tweak and this and this, because you’re trying to control something. If you let go, and really trust that you’re worth it, then you can relax and think about what matters in my life, just like EBV said. What matters? And you matter. That’s where they have to start.

Misty: (09:48)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Doctor Kasia: (09:52)

Go ahead. Let’s get [crosstalk 00:09:52]

Misty: (09:53)

Okay, the first question is from Bethany, is it true that EBV, Epstein Barr Virus, I’m going to call it EBV, but just in case that’s not clear, is it true that EBV is the cause of hepatitis C?

Doctor Kasia: (10:06)

I don’t know the answer to this question. There are claims, no many of the viewers probably are familiar with Anthony William, and his books. He makes a lot of claims, he talks about Hepatitis and Epstein Barr. I would say I would pursue that avenue definitely, and see how you respond if you follow that path. See how the liver does, see what presents if you get on it.

Misty: (10:37)

One of the things I will say, in my experience on this journey and I’m speaking as a woman who has been in this space for a long time, you guys know that I got a lot of access to really smart people that I’m constantly learning from, this idea that A causes B is a fallacy. In my observation, we so want to find a cause for things, A contributes to B is likely more accurate. A causes B is you can’t say that definitively because for some people A might cause B, but for other people A doesn’t cause B, you know what I mean. So if you can’t draw a scientific correlation this always leads to this, then it’s a maybe. And if it’s a maybe, then the most you can say is this is a causative factor. Like why am I tired? I’m not tired because of Epstein Barr alone. I had Epstein Barr for a really long time and I wasn’t tired. You see what I’m saying there? Kind of shift your thinking a little bit, and then it’s easier to wrap your head around this stuff, that’s why I’m offering that.

Misty: (11:42)

Because does Epstein Barr cause Hepatitis C? There’s nothing in the data or literature that definitively says that it does, however could it be a causative factor, meaning this in combination with other things in the body contributed to a state where Hepatitis C was able to manifest, that’s more likely the case. Or whatever that [crosstalk 00:12:02]

Doctor Kasia: (12:02)

Yes, thank you so much, I really appreciate this. You just rescued me. Yeah, you can have a headache if somebody asked me why I have a headache, well that can be for every 15,000 different reasons and it depends on the person. That’s why people with EBV have different presentations. Definitely. But I had a case where a woman was vaccinated for Hepatitis B and within months she developed liver damage and cirrhosis literally almost, and Hepatitis B, I mean you know we’re also over vaccinated, who knows. It’s complicated, but you have to look at your timeline, your life and get a hunch where things are trickling. What is your weakest link? Where do you get sick? What would it be now.

Misty: (12:47)

Yeah, all righty, Joe Carroll asks, my primary told me that I had EBV at one time, but that not now for my labs, so I guess her labs are not showing now, but I also read that it hides in the body, so is there a way to know if I still have it? Great question.

Doctor Kasia: (13:06)

Great question. Get this question all the time. The problem I’m seeing is with what doctors test and do not test. There is a website EBV HELT, H-E-L-T and one of the pages has an expansive write up on labs and lab interpretation and the markers and how to understand them, and if you take your lab result and look at that, did the doctor test all four markers. It’s true that two of them are for chronic exposure. You have the antibodies, you had exposure, but the problem with looking at this is that in medical communities so far, EBV is only considered dangerous when it’s in that acute phase, the first infection so to speak, which is not always true, but called mono, mononucleosis. And during that time, they can tell you that’s what you have, you have EBV, but after that in their vocabulary EBV is gone, you have antibodies and it has no bearings on your future. And for some people it may be so, you had mono and that’s what it is. You have so much nutritional support, there’s not enough stress, there’s not enough triggers and you don’t have any conditions, you may not present EBV again for decades depending on circumstances.

Doctor Kasia: (14:33)

But for the EBV the problem is that let’s say if your doctor tested DNA PCR I think it’s called, that would disappear within two four weeks. DNA is only showing in the blood stream during licing. The reactivation, some literature says that EBV reactivates spontaneously for no reason, that’s completely wrong. There’s always triggering point. But the B cells, B as in Boy your cells are infected and they’re immortalized so they always have that component of the virus in them, it changes the way they behave so they are changing in the behavior quickly and if you have triggering events in your life, those cells were versed liced, and you have spilling of new baby virons, that’s when they get into the blood, and that’s when that DNA testing will pick them up.

Doctor Kasia: (15:39)

But, the problem with EBV is exactly that it leaves the bloodstream and then travels, whether it’s thyroid, spleen, liver, brain, joints, muscles. Connective tissue disorder, I have a case right now, and we’re doing the applications for EBV and things are improving. So, it goes. So that’s one pitfall for medical community.

Doctor Kasia: (16:07)

The other one is early antigen. Oftentimes they don’t test for it. It’s a little bit like testing for thyroid. They do two and that’s it. They have no idea what’s going on underneath.

Misty: (16:16)

They want to do both, right.

Doctor Kasia: (16:20)

The same here, so early antigen is the one marker that you don’t want to skip, because early antigen will flair up enough to present positive if you tested during a flair up. So here’s a story you want to think about your circumstance. One of my graduates from my clinician program said well, the woman has the markers and the past exposure is positive, but the early antigen is negative. But she has all the presentation, all the chronic illnesses, all that and Hashimoto’s, what not. So what do we do with this? Well I said, “When did she test?” Well, she test in December. So then when did she feel really like crap? When was this time when she was hit by a truck? That’s how you feel, you remember how you used to feel EBV. When was that? She said, “Oh, that was during Thanksgiving.” But she tested in December.

Doctor Kasia: (17:24)

So by the time she tested, the licing had already occurred, the virans were spilling, they were by that time they were already getting into out of the blood, into the tissues, they were leaving the blood stream so antibodies wouldn’t pick them up necessarily. What do you do with that? You’re looking at your timeline, and see I would recommend reading the book just because that foundation part about research helps a lot of people with their own timeline of their story. I’ve had so many people say they have a-ha moments, “Oh I remember something happened. When I had juvenile arthritis and nobody knew what that is, I had this. I never thought about that, because it was a mystery.” Suddenly when you start reading it can do this, it can do that, the whole picture makes more sense. Your symptoms in the past make more sense. And then the cycles of when you may reactivate or not. Does it make sense?

Misty: (18:24)

Yeah, totally. So the next question, you just set it up perfectly, this is from Melinda, what are the four lab tests to check for EBV?

Doctor Kasia: (18:34)

VCAIGG, and that is for life, that’s going to be flag for life. VCAIGG is the biggest one where people have 600, or if you have a marker more than 600, that commonly occurs if the lab only tracks the numbers up to this point. This is the biggest one, and this is the one that frustrates people. I want you guys to hear me on that. If you get results, if you feel better just like Misty said, you can sleep a little less and get away with it, you can live your life again, and if you retest VCIGG and it’s still more than 600, what are you going to do? Think about it. It could have been 5000, and right now it may have dropped to 605. Huge drop, but you wouldn’t know. So you don’t want to get stuck if you maxed it because you don’t have a number. So that’s very important. That really tips people over, and discourages them, and you just have to remember that.

Doctor Kasia: (19:41)

The other one is VCAIGM. VCAIGM is more the initial infection, although I’ve seen just a handful of people, just very small percentage of people who actually flair up every time they flair up, or they have it elevated every time they test. It’s hard to tell if they have it constantly up, or they reactivate so often. It’s unusually for it to reactivate enough to flair up positive, but there are some irregularity. On that website that I mentioned, there are different scenarios you can read. What if I have positive this? What if I have this? Because antibodies are irregular as well. Like 10% of people don’t make this kind of antibody, or it could be false positives.

Doctor Kasia: (20:28)

The third one is early antigen, like I mentioned. Early antigen DEADIGG and that’s the one that will tell you, you have to be smart about when you test. So run to the doctor, or go online, direct to consumer labs request the test is one of them, and get it tested right away when you feel the worst, because if early antigen is flagged, then you know that’s what causing it, but you can miss it. If it’s negative already, but you have a history, just be smarter about when you test.

Doctor Kasia: (21:05)

And then the fourth one is EBEN, EBNA sorry. EBNA it’s a nuclear antigen. That’s IGG as well, and that’s also one that will probably stay around for the rest of your life. And sometimes those two, VCAIGG and EBNAIGG they remain high. Often times in more severe cases they are more than 600, so they’re not flagging the numbers. If you have that situation, really you want to look at other things, until they start going below 600 so you actually have number. But remember that it could have been 2000, 3000, 4000, you don’t know. Think about how you’re improving, and not the labs. And also think about other conditions you have.

Doctor Kasia: (21:59)

So thyroid is a perfect example, just like I wrote the message, because if you have Hashimoto’s, if you’re doing things right and if EBV drive Hashimoto’s, then the Hashimoto’s antibodies will drop to normal. Those nodules suddenly completely resolved.

Misty: (22:21)

Okay, let’s keep going here. We got lots of Hashimoto’s questions too. This next question if from Nicole, I’ve tried taking Lysine, but it upsets my stomach. I would love to try this protocol, as I carry EBV and this protocol sounds more reasonable than the expensive herbs my doctor had me on. Is there a replacement for the amino acid Lysine?

Doctor Kasia: (22:41)

There’s so much you can pick from. Interestingly, Lysine is not right, there’s counter-indications in the book where I have the whole protocol listed, and I have the potency, contraindications, what to watch for. Gallbladder, high cholesterol, and hemochromatosis, these are not good options for Lysine. Maybe you have hemochromatosis, maybe you should do a complete iron panel and see if your faritine is elevated, because Lysine improves the absorption of iron so you may make yourself sicker if you have high cholesterol that may contribute even more, gallbladder. So there’s plenty to go around, I like to use nutrients instead of herbs. I use just a few hers, and I like to use herbs in herbal teas, because then you can focus on nutrient based antivirals, which also feed other systems in your body, which is perfect, they do a lot of jobs. And then every time you drink liquid, you can drink water, but you can also drink water with antiviral qualities. That’s where I put most of the herbs. There’s plenty. If you don’t do Lysine, you don’t. You do other things. Absolutely.

Misty: (24:02)

Yeah, next question from Nicole, can acupuncture improve or eradicate EBV?

Doctor Kasia: (24:10)

Eradicate? I don’t think so. I don’t think so, but what it can do for you, most likely if you have a smart acupuncturist, and they are smart people is they will help the body turn off the stress hormones and the fight or flight sympathetic processes, because chemicals that are secreted during stress actually will feed the virus. That would be one [crosstalk 00:24:42]

Misty: (24:41)

Wanted to make that distinction earlier, so I’m glad you said this. So women understand, when you have a stressful event in your life, cortisol and all the chemical in the body to deal with that stressful event is what feeds EBV. So during my cleansing protocol, I went through a stressful event. It was putting on paleo effects, stressful time of year for the entire team. So we put that event on and right after that event I had the worst flair up of Epstein Barr, it was terrible. We were already pulling the Epstein Barr out, it was circulating in my blood, I have that stressful event a flair ups inevitable. That’s how these things are connected, this is why Epstein Barr can lay dormant for so long and then the stressful event comes and you’re crushed by it, because it feeds the Epstein Barr, which overtakes your immune system, that can’t fight off other things, and it just brings the whole house of cards.

Doctor Kasia: (25:37)

Yeah, so while it’s tragic it’s also predictable. It’s like a switch. It’s almost like you’re pregnant or not. When you turn on the switch for stress response you’re on, but you can turn it off. And ladies, do you know how you turn it off in five seconds? Deep breaths. A couple of deep breaths turn off the sympathetic response almost instantaneously, and if you yawn you know you’re done it. It’s totally doable and it’s predictable. If you have a situation like Misty, and you know you’re going to be going through cumulative event with a lot of stress, this is where you do acute EBV so you don’t get into that place.

Misty: (26:20)

Mm-hmm (affirmative), awesome.

Doctor Kasia: (26:23)

It is predictable in that way.

Misty: (26:25)

Yeah. Great. All right, next questions from Terry. How do I bring thyroid antibodies down? Mine are extremely high and have been for over a year no matter what I do. I have been taking mimosa pudica for over two years, which is for parasites, and started micro formula binders when they came out a year ago. I did a couple rounds of DMSA a year and a half ago, I see a naturopath monthly to help me with protocols, my diet is Paleo. I’m unable to take iodine or thyroid meds that makes me worse. Sensitive to everything. I’m better in some ways since starting Mimosa, migraines are 80% better. Reactions are minimal. I have more energy, but my antibodies are high and I found out that my EBV is active. I’m taking Selenium, P5P, zinc, magnesium, tudca, T-U-D-C-A is how she spelt it, as well as the micro formula protocol.

Doctor Kasia: (27:20)

It sounds like there was a lot of antimicrobial activity from different formulations, so it’s always hard on the body I would think. This is what happens when you target EBV but you don’t target it strategically and you’re not aggressive enough. You can be on 200 micrograms of Selenium, but if you really want to strategically target right now what’s going on, you could bring it up to 800 depending on your weight. If you’re very petite maybe 600. Drive it up to eight and see if you can tolerate it. Key research says it’s safe up to this amount. Make sure there’s no added Selenium in other supplements you don’t overdo more than 800, and you do the same with a couple of the big hitters, that I mention in the book.

Doctor Kasia: (28:13)

And then you have to also look at the environment. If iodine is reactive, iodine is an antimicrobial, so is it because you’re so toxic, or is it that you’re sensitive to iodine, or do you not need it. Thyroid is like Velcro for toxins. So you have to be aware of it, even if you fly on the plane you have to take measures not to have so much radiation. As simple as cut down instead of getting through the machine. Just being aware of your bearings with thyroid in general, but if you do the more acute protocol, and then watch the antibodies I see that if the EBV is driving it, these will start going down.

Misty: (29:10)

Awesome. Okay. Heidi asks if you have SIBO and EBV are the protocols the same? I know I have both. Which do I tackle first? Can your 30 day detox apply to both Kasia?

Doctor Kasia: (29:23)

Okay, do not do the 30 day detox. I think there is a button when you click on 30 day detox, I requested my IT guy to do a button if you have SIBO do not do it. Because it’s going to tear you apart. I get a lot of cases of both actually to the point when I wrote an article on that EBV health website about vagus nerve, SIBO, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, what the heck the vagus nerve. So SIBO I would say SIBO needs to be looked at first. I would say this, SIBO in a way it is more predictable and simpler. SIBO is much more complicated. I remember talking to our SIBO guru Angie Pifer, a good friend of mine, and says, “I wish SIBO was as simple and straightforward as this.” So if you have SIBO you know what I mean.

Doctor Kasia: (30:20)

But also we make a mistake with SIBO that we only focus on eradicating SIBO, but it’s like a running faucet, you have to turn it off. You don’t want to just you know sweep the floor that has water on it, and SIBO is a motility disorder. There’s a reason why you developed it. It’s not because of foods you ate necessarily, it’s something about the vagus nerve, motility, VAVs infections in the past, food poisoning in the past. So that has to be addressed. Visceral Manipulation needs to be there, maybe stimulation of vagus nerve with either acupuncture, and especially Eastern acupuncture when you put electrodes in needles and you stimulate the needles where the vagus nerve runs. Visceral manipulation to regulate the valve so they close properly and things don’t seep. Visceral manipulation also will help you find if you have adhesion’s, scarring, you know kinks in the colon. Things are sitting not moving, there’s fermentation.

Doctor Kasia: (31:25)

All that needs to be part of your SIBO journey, and then with that you do either herbals, medications, or elemental diet for two weeks. You have to test and retest, it’s very important. There’s lots of pitfalls there. A breeding ground for pitfalls in treatment. If you do that, if you understand where that SIBO is coming from is that vagus nerve also toasted, because the EBV is affecting it. Is that the beginning of your SIBO, or is it something else? Because if that’s how it is, we go upstream, then we work with a EBV protocol.

Doctor Kasia: (32:06)

So in terms of EBV protocol and SIBO, doing those protocols together, you could. That’s not a problem, if you work with somebody experienced, but diet is a problem, because the foods that are perfect for EBV will you tear you apart when you have SIBO because of the fiber component, that will bloat you, cause more distention and gas than the SIBO. In the Paleo, autoimmune Paleo all that, all these diets don’t necessarily fit the research and the solutions I’m seeing with EBV. You can be a vegan and do EBV and thrive on it, you can be a vegan and do EBV and clear your Hashimoto’s, I’ve seen that happen. Completely long term sustainable. The more antioxidants you have in your diet, the less inflammatory foods in general you have in your diet, the more material raw material against EBV you get. That’s that big umbrella.

Doctor Kasia: (33:18)

There’s something called NF Kappa B that’s inflammatory marker, and junk food feeds it, creates inflammation and EBV hijacks those little markers. The more of that you have, the more of the reactivation you might have. So that’s a very different story from the whole Paleo community, because you don’t necessarily have to restrict a lot of food groups, more plants may be better that’s why Anthony William is so strong about having a lot of raw. His recipes are all about plaques, because it’s really appropriate.

Doctor Kasia: (33:53)

Now if you have SIBO, your foods will not cause SIBO and your foods necessarily will not make the SIBO worse. You already have it. Food is just there, it’s going to feed it more, so you’re going to have more fermentation and more gas. So you’re going to be more miserable, so that’s the only reason why you restrict certain food groups and high fiber in SIBO. You also don’t want to restrict too much, so let’s say broccoli is high fiber, but if you have a little bit of broccoli and you’re fine with it, enjoy it. A little bit of this, a little bit of this, a little bit of this, sometimes it’s much better. If you have one cup of broccoli, you explode you don’t do it. You have to kind of track how everybody’s different with SIBO, what you can tolerate. It’s just tolerance. And there’s food with fiber that is okay with SIBO. You can have quinoa or brown rice, and that often times is well tolerated. You don’t want to go low carb on SIBO, that actually is not sustainable and not needed, so there’s some pitfalls there.

Doctor Kasia: (34:57)

Yeah, it’s complicated and much of the time of my work I do as a combination of those two. I really feel for you guys have you have SIBO and EBV. Because it’s a lot of steps to figure things out, but it’s worth it.

Misty: (35:15)

All right, Heidi asks, it kind of goes back to what I said initially, since I gave birth to my two children vaginally does this mean they are doomed to suffer EBV chronic symptoms?

Doctor Kasia: (35:25)

Nobody is doomed. Nobody is doomed, and I loved when Misty said, do not take the blame on you, because you can’t live in a bubble. You can get the virus from transfusion, you can get it from playing with kids, you can get it from kissing, you can’t really be in the bubble. Most of us carry it. There was a case, a friend of mine was reading the book, I want the moms to hear that story. She didn’t tell me that until after the fact, so she said, “The more I read the book, the more I thought about my niece. She’s two years old, she’s failing, she’s falling. There are diagonals in her here and there and nobody knows what’s going on.” So before she even talked to me she said, “I talked to my …” She talked to her sister, her sister asked the pediatrician to test EBV. The test was done properly and the diagnosis was severe chronic EBV at the age of two. She went back to some of the recipes, simple things, foods and by the time she talked to me, which was within a week, she says, “She’s walking. She’s not falling. She’s doing better.”

Doctor Kasia: (36:43)

And so I have goosebumps when I say that, because what it means, she was just a little angel. She was such an adorable little girl. What happens is, while she had a severe form at two, imagine the brain is developing, the tissues are developing at two, she was so infected, and they already turned around with [inaudible 00:37:03] they were doing some other things, food, blueberries, green tea, they just went for it. Within days she turned around and now they have the book, they have the knowledge, they know in future and I told her specifically, “You may have prevented cancer when she’s 40, 50. You may have prevented Hashimoto’s autoimmune disorders, Lupus, arthritis, chronic fatigue, because from now on you’ll always teach her, she’ll always know what to do and if it’s stewing she’s going to zap it right there, it will never come to fruition. That’s huge.

Doctor Kasia: (37:39)

So I want all the moms to know, it’s all totally possible. Dr. Flavin, I posted the link in the thread for us, with her study 2006, I actually tracked her down in Germany and we hit it off. What a wonderful woman. She did a study on 50 kids and young adults with enlarged spleens. Enlarged spleens are dangers. That’s really acute mono, they can burst, they are very dangerous. There is a specific protocol that she used, I think six different things with dosages for the kids and young adults. That gives you some ammunition you can look it up here. She was able to reverse and basically cure mono within 24, 48 hours. Took pictures of spleen before and after. Just like I said with that little girl.

Doctor Kasia: (38:31)

Instead of worrying, instead of being guilty, you have all the tools, you have that beautiful study, we will have EBV summit next year, and Dr. Flavin and I already hooked her up with a host. We’re going to have her speak, I can’t wait for American to hear who she is because she is amazing. The best kept secret. It’s a great service, because she proved that it is so fast. She have all the tools, you don’t have to worry. You just have to learn it, you know, read it, learn it, notice and you know what to do.

Misty: (39:07)

Awesome. All right, so Rose asks, I tested positive for non active EBV, I also have thyroid nodules and Hashimoto’s. What would be the best protocol to follow, I would love to eradicate it as slowly and gently as possible? And I kind of want to preempt this by saying, you’ve outlined all of this in your book, and it’s going to be really hard in a conversation like this to give you the whole protocol, but go ahead.

Doctor Kasia: (39:32)

Well, first of all, when they say it’s not active right now, did they test early antigen. Do you have a history of early antigen being tested, or retested when you felt good and when you felt crappy. Where are you now? Are you feeling really awful? Is that the time to retest early antigen. We don’t know what they tested and what they didn’t. Sometimes they only test two things. Just like with the thyroid, you know? With the thyroid you should retest antibodies every single time. I have a woman who’s meticulous over the top testing things, and every time her TPO is normal, but it’s increasing a little bit. Think about that. He has EBV.

Doctor Kasia: (40:19)

Just learn how to request the right labs, and interpret them yourself. There’s a huge chapter in the book, but there’s also a huge page on that website I mentioned, EBV help. So you can look at your lab and look at it and analyze it yourself. You can do it. And with the book and that page, you’ll know probably more how to analyze it than currently the doctors, because they go run quickly and they’re not thinking about all the permutations.

Misty: (40:50)

Yeah. And she also asks is there a safe kid’s protocol?

Doctor Kasia: (40:56)

That’s why I put up Dr. Flavin’s study, because it is a study, it’s published, it’s right there, it was acute. She did the dosages for kids and young adults. I would say the protocol, the max doses that I mentioned, I would cut them and use one third maybe for a kid. Also follow any contraindications that I list, and start with the five big ones, the Naseem, Lysine, Lucroy, Selenium, Zinc. Dr. Flavin was using Vitamin E and Vitamin C. These are of course these are big, I have them too. So pick and choose a few. Not much is needed sometimes. For kids, you may be surprised. Just tweak it and pick some, and maybe work with your doctor on picking the right ones if the doctor knows a kid well.

Misty: (41:51)

All righty. Next questions from Alice. I have EBV should I get the flu or pneumonia vaccine?

Doctor Kasia: (42:00)

I don’t really want to go into vaccination issues, because it’s a complicated issue and complicated story. I do mention one connection with vaccinations that come from eggs or from the protein material from eggs hands, and I know that may affect immunity later, especially vaccinations of viruses. Like I said, one of my patients was vaccinated for Hepatitis B and had severe Hepatitis B, almost killed her liver, and it took years to recover. It’s still iffy. She just developed after so one of the best remedies naturally that we have there extremely well study, you can just PubMed it, it’s overwhelming, very predictable, is that the better stages of Vitamin D will have the more protection you have against flu. And statistically I see it as at least as good as flu shots, but flu shots hit or miss, the flu evolves, and vaccinations are what they are at the given time. Even people that get vaccinated can get flu, it doesn’t guarantee that you’re not going to get it.

Doctor Kasia: (43:17)

But the vaccinations themselves, let me put it this way, I’ll never vaccinate myself for flu personally. I don’t need to. And one of the reasons I decided not to pursue my career related to hospital work is because I just didn’t want any vaccination, but that’s just me.

Misty: (43:37)

Yeah, so one of the things I will say just for women to contemplate when it comes to the whole vaccine argument in general, is you have to remember that every time you’re getting vaccinated they’re actually putting a little bit of it in you. If you’ve got immune issues already, logically what comes up for me, and what I’m hearing when other people are talking about this, is if you already got issues with your immune system being overly activated, or really sluggish, continuing to vaccinate for other things is a stressor on your immune system and your immune systems already compromised. I look at it really logically, and you know, do I want to further add a load to my body when I’m already feeling the effects of a compromised immune system.

Misty: (44:35)

I personally wouldn’t choose vaccination, and I think I’m not necessarily anti vax, I think you have to look at your unique situation and consider the effect that decision might have on you. Like the flu vaccine in general it’s so hit or miss, they come out with these vaccines that don’t even really help the statistics behind it, and look at it in comparison to everything else that you’re learning about how your body works as a woman and use your intuition to make that choice.

Doctor Kasia: (45:03)

Yeah, well said. There’s an article I wrote on EBV Health website about eggs. If you want to pull that blog and read, there is some research and some concerns about vaccinating in relationship to eggs, egg protein, and autoimmunity. I reference some study there if anyone wants to read more, but yeah, it’s a tricky area.

Misty: (45:32)

Yeah. All right next question is from Deliverance, I have had reactivated EBV for at least a year. I have been on a low dose antibiotic and a high dose of Vitamin C and it’s not working. My [inaudible 00:45:44] sky high, I have Hashimoto’s and after a brief time of seeing my antibodies get a little lower, they went back up higher they have been since my diagnosis. I was doing stripped AIP, then reintroduced to almost Paleo, but now my nurse practitioner wants me to go back to AIP. Is any of this going to work, I am so frustrated?

Doctor Kasia: (46:04)

Okay, it is very frustrating, because like Ms. D told you, antibiotics have no bearings on EBV. There may be co-infection like strep, which is not uncommon there are pathogens, but if you want to do antibiotics, you want to do a stool test and see if there’s any pathogenic bacteria that you are actually killing, because you actually killing an immune system. So the terrain of your immune system is terrain right on your gut lining, and this gut lining should be populated by a biofilm of good beneficial bacteria. These bacteria talk to your immune system, they regulate PA’s they regulate pathogens, yeast, everything needs its place. They create butyric acid, which feeds your colon cells, but also seeps into the bloodstream and actually feeds your Tregs, the Tregs regulate your autoimmunity, prevents the bad T regulatory cells other T like T17 is a potential trigger for autoimmunity, so they can down regulate the other bad guys like a superhero in your bloodstream, and it needs bi-butyrate, bi-butyrate comes from your good bacteria the good bacteria need fiber so that’s more of the roughage from plants there’s no fiber and none of that happens if you have heavy meat based diet, because first there’s nothing there to feed them or dairy.

Doctor Kasia: (47:40)

So where were we going with this? Yes antibiotics, I don’t understand the logics behind it. It’s like shooting in the dark, this really is pointless, so it’s hurting your microbiome, so you just ruined your immune system that was in the gut, and now you have to repair it and nourish it again bring it back, which takes time, so then the immune system will improve and fight the EBV better. With Hashimoto’s, I know that there’s different diet restrictions for Hashimoto specifically, books have been written about it, but I have to say that Hashimoto is driven by Epstein Barr and that’s the presentation, then you don’t necessarily have to restrict so much and get into a Hashimoto diet. I had a woman that is vegan and we did it completely with plant based diet, her Hashimoto’s became normal, she has no more problem, and she’s completely functional again, happy depression gone. So take a look at the book and the ideas and see if you can tolerate these foods. Everything depends on the foods you tolerate as well. But you have to rebuild your gut, you have to recover, this is not good the antibiotics.

Doctor Kasia: (49:02)

If you are on medication like nature thyroid, or Synthroid or MP, if it’s driven again by a virus then it can have a honeymoon period where you feel better, but then like you said, then you don’t, because it’s a square peg in a round hole. They don’t fit. The thyroid is still being attacked by the immune system, because it’s going after EBV, which resides there. And basically it’s not because immune system is stupid, but if the cells in thyroid are infected by EBV, it’s inside the cells, the immune system has no choice but go after the cells, kill the cells remove the cells jump on the cells because they need to be terminated because of that EBV. So that’s the damage. The triggering factor has to be removed. That would be the bigger one, the EBV, that’s what it is.

Misty: (49:59)

Right. Yeah, I actually left a comment on that one similar-

Doctor Kasia: (50:03)

I know. Yeah, I read it.

Misty: (50:05)

You don’t treat a viral infection with an antibiotic it just doesn’t, like that’s-

Doctor Kasia: (50:11)

No, so that’s-

Misty: (50:15)

That would be a tell for me that I needed to find a new doctor. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, because I can only imagine a really uninformed, uneducated doctor, and I mean that with all do respect when it comes to this area giving you an antibiotic to treat a virus.

Doctor Kasia: (50:37)

I think it’s a liability. It’s incompetent and it is completely wrong. I don’t know how it even happened, it shouldn’t have happened.

Misty: (50:47)

Yeah, all right, so the next question is what is the best diet protocol. I know you’ve kind of touched on this. Do you think there is a best? Can you make a variety of these diet paths work? Is the important thing just getting the right foods in the diet?

Doctor Kasia: (51:06)

I did make a statement in the book that I’m not going to create my diet, or I’m not going to call it a diet, there is no diet, what works the best it seems is whole foods, and refined with every element fido nutrient you can find. I really appreciate Anthony Williams stressing going back to wild foods like wild blueberries. Antioxidants and anti NF Kappa B constitutes curbing the free radical and oxidative damage. This is really where you win. Antioxidants that are part of the EBV protocol are Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Vitamin A antioxidants, Selenium, antioxidants. Really, enjoying real foods. Not necessarily going into a diet mode. Just tweaking what you’re eating, but preventing chemicals, because chemical exposure, environmental exposure that’s triggering points.

Doctor Kasia: (52:25)

There was a study on NF Kappa B when just one meal in a fast food joint increased NF Kappa B by 150%. So three fold within an hour and a half or so. That one meal could literally be a factor in re-triggering your EBV if there is also terrain when you already compromised. It’s just the quality of foods. And fiber roughage to feed the tregs like I said, to feed the microbiomes so they have something to eat, and you’re not getting that roughage from meat, dairy, cheese, eggs. There’s nothing there for them, soda. That’s going to starve them, that’s going to compromise the immune system. If you look at it this way, just more whole foods really. Not that complicated. But good quality and organic, because also one thing I have to mention with diet to everyone is if you look at studies, if your nutritional state is decreasing, so you have more nutrient deficiencies, your virus becomes more virulent, so it becomes stronger. Just like Selenium deficiency. It suddenly becomes a problem.

Doctor Kasia: (53:47)

There’s a lot of studies, and I had to quote some because people still ask me if organic produce is just an expensive fat. No, it’s not. We are losing nutrient density in foods from commercially grown produce. We are losing, because the top soil is dying, it’s not nourished, and the plants all only are as nutritious as the soil they grow in. No, the organic farmers tend to the soil better, and it of course has the minimum pesticides. They’re not pesticide free, because it’s not a glass house, it’s not a bubble. There’s still water and wind and rain, you get contamination, but it’s really important to invest in organics to maximize that nutrient status.

Misty: (54:35)

All righty. Heidi asks, wait that’s a repeat of the same question. Next question, Barbara asks, my son is 11 years old and he has EBV unfortunately, can I use your protocol for EBV for him, what about dosages? And you pretty much already addressed-

Doctor Kasia: (54:52)

Yeah so check Dr. Flavin’s study that I linked there. She goes through specific protocol with the dosages for kids, or you can do one third of what I recommend acutely and I think that would be safe. Just watch if he does better or not. With the supplements in my book, especially starting with the five big hitters there should not be side effects, hopes reactions, diet off you should just feel better. If he feels worse, one of those is not working, maybe he’s sensitive, maybe it’s not a good fit.

Misty: (55:30)

All right. Can you address the relationship, connection, or susceptibility of EBV, Herpes, Shingles, etc.? I saw all of them on a graphic about EBV. I didn’t ask you that question, did I?

Doctor Kasia: (55:40)

Nope, nope, nope.

Misty: (55:41)

I keep reading it, and I’m having this déjà vu moment of did I read that one out loud? I don’t think I said it out loud.

Doctor Kasia: (55:49)

No. There are herpes family and they hate the same thing. The beautiful thing is, I started I remember reading Anthony Williams information and audio on herpes, because I was really blown away. Could we really work with this? Of course there’s no research anywhere, or no schooling on it. I actually pulled, before I did the book, I pulled his protocol out, and basically it’s very similar to what I do, based on research and what delivers, and the interesting thing is I had a friend with Shingles within the first day of diagnosis. She decided to just jump in with me, and we did an acute and it was pretty much EBV, acute EBV. That’s what we did, cleaned up. Within a week, she was symptom free, she turned around and that’s long term, never happened again. She knows where to go if it happens again. They had the same things, so that’s the fascinating thing, it’s herpes family.

Doctor Kasia: (57:04)

The little herpes, that’s the easiest, sometimes you just need Lysine for that one. Even sometimes 500 or 1000, but that’s a low dose. Sometimes that’s enough. But the problem is when one reactivates and you have all of them, depending on circumstances and how bad you are with your diet, your sleep, with your overwork stress level, there is a concept called transactivation when one infection pulls on the other, so if you have a little herpes, you don’t want to develop, redevelop your EBV or vice versa, but that goes across species, so it doesn’t have to be viral, it could be strep it could be fungal. One pulls another, it could be both direction. EBV can trigger your old strep or your fungal infection can trigger EBV. That’s where I see if the protocol is not working, that’s where I see complications. If there’s fungal infection, toxic mold, or electro magnetic field exposure. Something else is preventing the protocol from hitting the virus. There’s something ongoing that is also confusing immune system affecting it.

Misty: (58:15)

Yeah. All righty. That’s about a wrap. I think we got all the questions in, right at an hour, nice job. Thanks everyone for joining us and asking all your questions and think you Dr. Kasia for spending time with us, and sharing so much of who you are. You’ve been so active in the community too, supporting everyone that has questions, and I appreciate that, I know so many women appreciate that. My perspective, my belief based on my experience with this is that if you’re a woman dealing with flabby, foggy and fatigue, you likely have Epstein Barr. It’s really important that you have this education, that you know what tools will work, what you can do to actually corral this and get it under control, and I’m super excited that we found you right at [inaudible 00:59:02] so perfect. The universe smiling God said “This will happen.” That’s great.

Doctor Kasia: (59:11)

Ask again, you will get it right.

Misty: (59:12)

That’s right.

Doctor Kasia: (59:12)

Be careful what you’re asking for.

Misty: (59:12)

Thanks everyone for tuning in. I’m really grateful that you are spending time with us, that you trust us to support you, and I’m honored. I’m honored with great practitioners, to all of you, and I want you all to be radiant Rosie’s with me, I want you all to have an amazing quality of life too.

Doctor Kasia: (59:27)

Okay, you guys, Misty is officially an EBV hero, I don’t know if you can see this, we have a manifesto, it is on my website, you can pull it out and you can print it, put it on your refrigerator.

Misty: (59:43)

Yup, frame it and put it on our own wall.

Doctor Kasia: (59:46)

We refuse to be victimized by EBV.

Misty: (59:50)


Doctor Kasia: (59:51)

We know both pain and fear, and we embrace them with compassion, but we have chosen to move forward from that dark place, because we believe recovery from EBV is possible. We have given ourselves permission to heal. We believe our body is our best ally, we commit to loving and supporting it and on and on, and we are against being marginalized and dismissed by the medical community, we are the agents of change. You ladies, go get it. Bring your histories to our doctors, pushing the shift in the medicine, ensuring that the future generations our daughters, our sons do not have to suffer like we did. And there’s more, more, more. I want you to print it, enjoy it.

Misty: (01:00:35)


Doctor Kasia: (01:00:35)

Know that it’s true.

Misty: (01:00:37)

That’s right.

Doctor Kasia: (01:00:37)

Let’s make that better.

Misty: (01:00:38)

That’s what I want for every single one of us. We are empowered, we have the knowledge and resources that we need to change our life. Thank you again for your help-

Doctor Kasia: (01:00:47)

With your amazing event is so helpful, so beautiful and so healing. Thank you for putting it up and driving it.

Misty: (01:00:57)

Thank you to all of you for tuning in, and we’ll have another Ask Me Anything in a few hours. So have a good day everybody.

Doctor Kasia: (01:01:04)

Have fun. Thank you. Bye, good luck.





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